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The Bible and religion are crap

I was brought up not to discuss religion or politics in public.  That's good advice if you want to climb the corporate ladder without stepping on anybody's toes.  The problem with remaining silent, however, is that you allow the vocal minority of fanatics to have their way and continue their corrosive influence on the world.

So I shall not politely remain silent while I see Bible-bangers spread their disease across cyberspace.  It's time that, in the name of rationality, somebody actually called a spade a spade, bs for bs.  Here goes...

1) The Bible is downright evil, supports evil actions that no decent person would condone.

For example, in the Bible, God kills unborn fetuses by inducing miscarriages in women, God encourages the killing of men, women, children and farm animals, God encourages rape and murder, incest, slavery and 'sacrifice', in the form of killing animals and children.  God even takes time out of his busy schedule to make a donkey talk.  Quite literally, God talks out of Balaam's Ass.  Google "Balaam's Ass" or "Balaam's donkey" for more. 

2) The Bible, and religion in general, perpetuate *irrationality*. 

The real question is not whether the Bible conflicts with 'science' but the fact that Bible conflicts with ITSELF.  Self-contradiction is the highest form of irrationality.  You don't need to know anything about science to know that the Bible is utter garbage, you just need common decency (to recognize the atrocities mention in (1) above) and you need to be able to spot a flat-out contradiction when you see it.  Fortunately, by googling 'Bible contradictions' you get this website which outlines some of the many contradictions you'll see in the Bible.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

The fact is you can talk about science all day long.  Fortunately, there are people who do this--they are called 'scientists'.  there are good, bad, better and worse scientists.  Science uses special methods for acquiring knowledge and making truth claims.  "Faith" is not one of them.  In any case, science has nothing to do with the stupidities found in the Bible or organized religion.  You can do your job as a scientist while still being brainwashed to believe all kinds of crap.  Don't be suckered into a conversation about The Bible and science.  It's a red herring and distracts from the fact that if a book contradicts itself, then it cannot possibly be true.  Another form of argument is to assume that everything in the Bible IS true, and then show how, if it's true, then God is an egomaniacal jerk who hates women, gays, children, farm animals and just about everything else. That is a reductio ad absurdum form of argument that should be employed against Christians and other religious fanatics.  Of course, if you aren't a 'fanatic' then you probably have not followed your religious beliefs to their logical conclusion--ALL religious leaders were fanatics, they preached fanaticism, and you either believe the crap they said, or you don't.  If you do believe it, and act on those beliefs, then you are a fanatic as well.  If you fail to act on those beliefs, then you're a hypocrite.  Pick your poison.  Fanatic, or hypocrite.  there is no in between.   That is the logical structure of a *dilemma*, and all self-proclaimed 'believers' of any religion are stuck in that dilemma.  fortunately, most of them are merely hypocrites, unlike the 9/11 bombers and fundamentalist christian abortion clinic bombers. 

In addition to contradicting themselves, most religious groups employ the fallacy of circular logic.  "P is true because of Q.  Q is true because of R.  R is true because of P."  That's the logical structure of a circular argument.  The problem with circularity is not that you can't prove what you want to prove, the problem is that you can prove ANYTHING is true with circular arguments, and so you haven't proven anything at all.  It is an invalid logical structure. 

3)  By not speaking out against the irrationality of religion, you perpetuate it and its evil influence.

The worst thing that happened in human history was that the Romans didn't succeed at wiping out the early Christians.  Unfortunately, Christianity appealed to the gigantic lower class masses since appealing to complete losers (ie, prostitutes, tax collectors, ex-cons) was part of Jesus Christ's marketing strategy.  Not a bad strategy at all.  There are a lot more poor, stupid and miserable people who would love to believe that they are GOOD and the rich and powerful are BAD, and that eternal joy and happiness was waiting for them in the afterlife.  So sure, it's not surprising that this crap spread throughout the world, with the help of the Roman Catholic Church and its military might, ie, the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, and other acts of genocide and torture.  So thanks to military actions that are only rivaled by Hitler and the Nazis, Christianity asserted itself as the dominant religion in the West.

Nowadays the Roman Catholic Church is too busy molesting children and covering it up that they don't have time to engage in genocide anymore.  Children are easier victims.  And it sure helps that non-Catholics still defend Christianity.  "Sure, even if the Catholic Church is bad, that doesn't mean Christianity is bad". Uh-huh.  Right.  By creating a culture where you have to have respect for other people's 'faith', these Christian sympathizers open the door to even more irrationality and evil. 

9/11 was not caused by Fundamentalist Muslims, it wasn't caused by Muslims, and it wasn't caused by Arabs.  It was caused by the *irrationality of religion in general*, and that irrationality is spread by good ol'fashioned God-fearing Christians as much as anybody else.  Fundamentalist Christians who bomb abortion clinics are just following the religious mumbo jumbo to its logical conclusion.  All religion is breeding ground for irrationality.  All religion, when followed to its logical conclusion, leads to fanaticism.  All religious fanaticism makes the world a s--tty place to live.  Just ask New Yorkers after 9/11.

So when you see Bible bangers here on chess.com, or elsewhere, preach their crap.  Just throw it right back in their faces and say, "no thanks, I had enough of your crap on 9/11."

This has nothing to do with science, but common sense and common decency.  The world needs less 'faith' and more rationality.  "Faith" is believing something WITHOUT ANY GOOD REASON to believe it.  If there WERE a good reason to believe it, it would NOT be faith, it would just be another belief grounded in empirical fact.  But the LACK of evidence is what makes faith what it is.  And that lack of evidence is what opens the door to belief in ANYTHING AT ALL.  What restricts the beliefs of a rational person are two things: 1) the facts, 2) logic.   Faith-based religions say you should believe what THEY tell you to believe, and if they try to give you REASONS for believing it, then they are hypocrites (because then it's NOT faith anymore) and if they don't give you reasons for it, then you have NO REASON TO BELIEVE IT. 

"Faith" is not a virtue, it's a form of stupidity.  *NEVER* praise 'faith'.  The Nazis had a lot of 'faith' in Hitler.  Roman Catholics have Faith in the infallibility of the Pope--and so they send their children to get raped by their priest.  Al-Qaeda terrorist have 'faith' in Allah and Muhammed, his BS-ing schizophrenic prophet.  Mormons have Faith that Joseph Smith wasn't a complete lunatic.  "Faith" is a recipe for disaster. 

Fortunately, the founding fathers of the United States of America were smart enough to recognize two things.  1) religion is total BS and should be separated from governance (unlike in England, where the King and Queen were appointed by God) and 2) you need to give people religious freedom because, like an angry pack of children, you can't force them to be rational and you cannot rationally persuade them to be rational (because that only works if they're already rational!).  You should tolerate them as best you can and hope that one day they might grow up.

For more on the founding fathers and their hostility towards Christianity and organized religion, go here:

http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html

 

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason"--Benjamin Franklin

 

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." --Benjamin Franklin

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies." --Benjamin Franklin

Bible-banging is not just stupid, it's un-American. 

4) Religion makes you stupid.

Every cross-cultural scientific study done on the relation between religious belief and intelligence has shown that the more 'religious' you claim to be, the more stupid you are. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence#Studies_comparing_religious_belief_and_I.Q.

 

It's clear that religious people tend to be more stupid, but what's not so clear is whether there is causation and not merely correlation.  Does religion make people more stupid, or is it just that stupid people are attracted to religion?  I would say it could be a lot of both.  You're certainly not going to get any smarter hanging around religious fruitcakes, and if you are attracting to them in the first place, you're probably a fruitcake yourself.

SPECIAL BONUS:  Evil religious book quotations!

Yes, below I quote a revered religous book, and then your job is to guess which religious text it is!  Christians love to cite all the evil passages in the Qu'ran, and that's a good thing to do.  Unfortunately, they gloss over the evil passages in the Bible.  That's not a good thing to do.  It's hypocritical, in fact.

Ok here goes--evil religious text trivia!  BIBLE or Qu'ran ?  Take your pick!

"If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death."

"If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."

"If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death"

"When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city."

"Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything." (ok, that's an easy one...but I want the Christians to get at least ONE right!)

"If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property"

"And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend"

"Women should listen and learn quietly and submissively. I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly. For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve. And it was the woman, not Adam, who was deceived by Satan, and sin was the result. But women will be saved through childbearing and by continuing to live in faith, love, holiness, and modesty.”

"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

ANSWERS:

all are from the Bible. Both "Old" and "New" Testaments.

The is not a book that is even remotely divinely inspired, unless God is an evil prick.

I would not want anything in this book a part of the governance of a nation.

I would not want my kids exposed to any of this crap.

So the next time you come across a Bible banger, here or in real life, do the world a favor and tell them to go take their crap elsewhere, that irrationality has done enough harm in the world.

CONCLUSION:

All major Western religions are, essentially, organized HATE groups.  Mormons hate blacks, gays, and Native Americans.  Christians hate women, gays, science, children (ie, Roman Catholics), children's books (ie, Harry Potter) and non-believers.   Muslims hate women, gays, infidels and especially Jews.  Jews are peculiar in that the smart ones tend to be atheist (ie, Freud, Marx, Bobby Fischer, etc.)--I guess you could say they hate being Jewish, and hate Palestinians.  In short, all major western religions are HATE GROUPS.  Most of all, they hate RATIONALITY. 

Their propensity for irrationality is what leads to *violence*, as was seen on 9/11.  Rationality promotes scientific education, intelligence, compromise, ability to weigh risk and reward, ability to skeptically research the facts, always questioning one's assumptions, etc.  Those are all traits scorned by religions that promote 'faith', which is diametrically opposed to rationality.  Do not be afraid to publicly scorn organized religion, for they are nothing more than hate groups.  They all preach 'love', but what they love most is hating infidels, hating their enemies and hating rationality.  If you love rationality, it is your duty to stand up to these organized hate groups and call them out for what they are--international and domestic terrorists.

Comments


  • 4 years ago

    Mr_Ikslopot

    LMAO. Great blog. LOL.

    I agree with your observations here Space. I often wonder why Christians feel they have to prove their beliefs are valid and then talk about faith. It strikes me that that the epistomological statement of faith freed one to go beyond the constraints of materialism. I love Dante for this very reason; however, I also enjoy the collection of poems, edited by Czeslaw Milosz, entitled  A Book of Luminous Things for the reason that it avoids anything metaphysical and stays material.  Yet it still reaches out for something that suffers from explanation. But I digress.

    Of course, many Christians are not aware of more rational groups of Christians and various sects just as they are equally unaware of all other cultures and social norms outside of their own experience. Largely, this is true of most of humanity. There are and have been Christians who do not believe in the more fantastic stories in the bible such as the reincarnation and such. Many groups and sects have interpreted and understood many things in many ways within Christianity. Christians whom I have had experience with in the US generally reject anything but literal interpretations of the Bible; however, they presume their interpretations are indeed facts. Many people do not understand the Bible within the context of a tabula rasa; therefore, textural studies often are never studied. I always encourage Christians or others to read them. I always thought they are most interesting.

    Many of these assertions within the blog post could have been said of most non-believers or anyother group and the arguments presented could have been applied as well. I do agree with a commentor that the post is an opinion but this is arbitrary.

    I will say that there have been great religious thinkers. Augustine, St. Thomas, and many more. The thoughts of the Upanishads inspired German thinkers as well. I don't want to made some lugubrious list here. It would be unnecessary.

    Also, I think that despite wether or not one is a believer the issue of metaphysics cannot be avoided for the philosopher. Even the abscence of the content betrays the unknown possiblity. Imagination is still desired by thinkers. Dreams are not real and yet they are real and can be real in the way that they are personal experience. Personal experience of the world is personal.

    I would like to write more but dinner awaits.

    Space, it is great to read you again.

  • 4 years ago

    SpaceOddity

    Ian, you have not yet addressed any of my arguments.  To point out a flaw in an argument you can do one of either two things.  1) you can show that it is invalid (that the conclusion can be denied without denying the conjunction of the assertion of the premises) or 2) you can show that the argument is unsound (one of the premises is false). 

    My arguments are clear and specific.  So general comments you might have against atheism are likely irrelevant if they don't address my specific arguments.

    Ian writes:

    "All reasonable things require some degree of faith, and faith without substance is stupid".  This claim contradicts itself.  Here is how.

    A reasonable claim is grounded in reason or brute empirical fact.  Faith is believing something without a reason and so is the antithesis of reason. 

    For example, when God asks Abraham to murder his child, Abraham had to have faith that this was God asking him (and not the Devil or his own imagination) and he had to have faith that whatever God wants is what he should do.  He had nothing more to go on to act on his faith.   He had no REASON to act one way rather than another.  In fact, he had reason to go AGAINST what he was asked to do, because common decency and morality is that you don't kill your own child.  Abraham likely loved his own child and did not want to kill him.

    So this is the quintessential case of faith in the Bible, and it is clear that there is not a *sufficient* reason for killing your own son here.  And that's why it's 'faith'.  If there were a sufficient reason, then it would not be faith.  And just as Abraham believed, as a matter of Faith, that he should kill his own son, the 9/11 terrorists believe that God wanted them to bomb New York. 

    Do you see the danger of 'faith'? 

    Let me ask a simple question--wouldn't the world be better off if people didn't act on faith, but only acted on reason?  Wouldn't that have prevented 9/11, the Holocaust, the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, etc.?

    Faith is diametrically opposed to reason.  If you have a reason for your 'faith', then it's NOT 'faith'.  If Abraham had known God would stop him from killing his own son, then he didn't have "faith' at all.  the only 'faith' is BLIND faith.  Faith is always a 'leap' of faith, because it 'leaps' outside the boundaries of reason.

    You can't have it both ways, you can't have your cake and eat it too.  You can't praise faith, and still claim to be rational.  You can have your faith, but only by being irrational.

  • 4 years ago

    Ian_Sinclair

    I will post the links for the time being and will have to get back to u on the objections on the weekend or early next week most likely as i have busy few days. Thanks for your patients.

    http://www.gotquestions.org/is-God-evil.html

    http://www.gotquestions.org/infidel.html

    WWW.DISSENTFROMDARWIN.ORG

    Now if anyone has any genuine questions they want to know, from at least a some what open mind set please feel free to send a message in the mean and i do my best to respond asap.

    P.S. Atheists/Agnostics often misquote and take scripture out of context when addressing the issue and claims you make against the bible, because your not really looking for an answer, only a reason to not believe in God.

    All reasonable things require some degree of faith, and faith without substance is stupid. If i simply believe anything i like without anything to give good grounds for it ( When you don't have an answer for it completely or cant prove everything empirically) i could believe and justify anything. I believe the bible and in God because there is substance to that belief and is rational, so the things i can't answer and that do require faith can be more easily accepted.

  • 4 years ago

    janefonda

    you agued with someone's comments after you deleted them so that the orignal information couldn't be viewed. pathetic

  • 4 years ago

    SpaceOddity

    Ian writes:

    "There is nothing irrational about my approach to Christianity.I looked into it well enough to see not every one who claims to be true is and i have solid evidences also to give me good reasons for my faith."

    You have contradicted yourself.

    IF you have "solid evidences" that give you "good reasons" for your "faith", then it is NOT FAITH that you have.  I don't have "faith" that I'm wearing shoes.  I can look down and see that I'm wearing shoes.  Believing what you do based on evidence and reasons is NOT faith.  It's just an ordinary attempt at knowledge, which is what normal people do all the time in the course of their lives.

    "Faith", however, in the religious sense especially, is believing what you do in a way that is NOT based on evidence.  That is what makes faith so special and also what makes it irrational.  If you actually saw Jesus Christ perform miracles, die, and come back from the dead...well, you don't have "faith" that he's a special person, you just saw it with your own eyes.  the rest of us have to have 'faith' that it's true, "faith" that we have original sin (if you're catholic), "faith" that there's an afterlife, etc.

    Either you have reasons for believing what you do, or you don't have reasons.

    If you have reasons, then it is not faith (it's just an ordinary belief).  If you don't have reasons, then it's irrational. 

    That is the dilemma you have.  Nothing you say or write or quote from other sources addresses the heart of my logical argument.

    "Irrational" is not an insult or a sloppy term, it is a very precise technical term.  Circular arguments, such as appealing to the Bible as authority, is irrational.  Self-contradiction is irrational.   Having faith, in explicit denial of reason, is also irrational.

    My blog post shows how all faith-based religions promote irrationality, and therefore open the door to all kinds of wacky beliefs and promote that people believe what they do based on EMOTION rather than REASON.  That opens the door to hatred and violence. 

    Now if you would like to stay on the specific topics I address, then I welcome a response.  A response from YOU that stays on target to the issues. 

    The argument I formulate is such that you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.  If you admit you have reasons for your beliefs, then you don't have 'faith'.  If you admit you have no reasons for your beliefs, then you admit to being "irrational.". 

    That is your problem.

  • 4 years ago

    SpaceOddity

    Ian,

    I have deleted your comments because: 1) they are not your comments, you simply cut and pasted from other sources and 2) in doing so did not address my specific arguments.  You are welcome to post links to your favorite websites if you think they address some of the issues I raise, but it's a waste of space and irrelevant to put a list of hundreds of names of people. 

  • 4 years ago

    SpaceOddity

    Ian,

    Thank you for taking the time to make an attempt at a reply, unfortunately, almost all your comments dodge the real issues and *arguments* (yes, logical argument, not just spewing of opinion).

    First off, you don't address the argument concerning the dilemma of being a hypocrite or a fanatic.  Are you DENYING that the major faith-based world religion founders were NOT fanatical and did NOT preach fanaticism?  YES or NO.  It's a clear question with clear logical implications

    Secondly, you did not address the nature of the scientific issue that religiosity is inversely correlated with intelligence.  Instead, you list a bunch of names that does nothing to address the scientific facts.   You could just as easily list the names of famous scientists who were Nazis, or famous scientists who were murders, or famous scientists who were part of the KKK...it's all irrelevant to the point I made about the relation between intelligence and religiosity.

    Thirdly, the bible only needs ONE example of a complete atrocity to be deemd uninspired by a benevolent God.  That's all it takes, and it's easy to find.

    Take, for example, what the Bible says about women from St. Paul or what is says about gays.  Please restrict your discussion to those two topics in particular and show that the Bible does not support the murder of gays and show that the Bible does not support the subjugation of women.  You can quote all you want passages about love, peace, bla bla bla, but the task for you is to explain the passages about hate, murder, and subjecting women to violence and subjecting women to the authority of men.

    If your comments were a college paper, I'd have to give them a "D" for not staying within the scope of the arguments, and for not identifying and addressing the arguments.  You went for quantity of comments instead of quality.]

    The biggest problems you need to address is why anybody should have 'faith' in anything.  'Faith' as I clearly define in my article, as believing something WITHOUT a *reason*.  Science, and common sense rationality, is constituted by having REASONS for believing something.  Faith is NOT having a reason, and so that opens the door to all kinds of nonsense.  The lack of reason, ie, the lack of rationality, is what opens the door to letting blind emotion, especially hatred, dominate.  And that's what led to 9/11, genocide, and all the other atrocities in the name of 'God'.  IF you support a faith-based religion, then you support irrationality, and you are cousins (if not brothers) of the 9/11 terrorists, the Nazis, the Inquisitors, the Crusaders, the jihadists, etc.  You are all the same--you all deny rationality in the name of Faith.

    THAT is the problem you need to address. 

  • 4 years ago

    Ian_Sinclair

    [COMMENT DELETED]
  • 4 years ago

    Ian_Sinclair

    [COMMENT DELETED]
  • 4 years ago

    Ian_Sinclair

    [COMMENT DELETED]
  • 4 years ago

    Ian_Sinclair

    [COMMENT DELETED]
  • 4 years ago

    SpaceOddity

    Ian writes:

    "First of all the towers u have pictured are not a result of Christianity they are off extremists of Muslims and do not reflect the majority who don't think such acts are justified."

    I obviously know that the 9/11 bombers were not Christian.  And you obviously did not read my blog carefully enough to discern its thesis and the arguments and examples that substantiate that thesis, so let me clarify it for you here.

    The thesis:  All faith-based religions oppose rationality and foster irrationality. 

    Both Christianity and Islam are faith-based religions.

    Both oppose rationality and foster irrationality.  I gave myriad historical examples and quotations from the Bible. 

    In light of these examples, quotations and the fact that the leaders of these religions are all fanatics, it is clear that there are TWO kinds of religious followers of these religions: 1) fanatics, 2) hypocrites. 

    So, yes, the Islamic terrorists who bombed 9/11 were not Christian and they were not 'mainstream' Muslims.  Of course.  But the 'mainstream' Christians and Muslims are HYPOCRITES, because they are not actually acting on the teachings of their religious texts, unlike the fanatics.  The 'mainstream' have watered-down defenses of 'faith' and, so, make acceptance of IRRATIONALITY.  It is just a matter of time and psycho-social pressure before members of the irrational mainstream religions gravitate towards the extremes, which are the religions' logical conclusion.  Those extremes lead to violence, anarchy, and make the world a crappy place.  IRRATIONALITY, in the form of 'faith', opens the door to *anything* and adds fuel to the fire of human EMOTION.  Religion, via irrationality, appeals to EMOTION, and those emotions foster HATE, and that HATE (blinded by all reason and guided by irrational faith) leads to VIOLENCE.  You can believe any old crap by having 'faith' in the crap.  Rationality, on the other hand, CONSTRAINS what you believe by restricting it to the FACTS and to logic (ie, non-contradiction, the contrapositive, recognition of valid logical structures, etc.).  Emotion is fine--it is a pleasure of being human and a natural product of our evolution--but what distinguishes human beings is our capacity to reflect rationally on all our surroundings and on ourselves, including our emotions.  Religious fanatical leaders--and many political leaders--use the vulnerability of our emotions to circumvent our rational checks-and-balances. The real enemy is not religion per se, but irrationality, and it just so happens that all faith-based religions add fuel to the fire of our irrational tendencies. 

    It is the mainstream of hypocrites who make the world a safe-haven for the irrational extremists by defending, even nurturing, IRRATIONALITY (ie, 'faith').

    Am I being clear now?  If I'm wrong in any of the historical examples, Bible quotations or arguments, then feel free to clear those up--all of them (and there are many more--the Bible is full of crap).  How is it that the God of the Bible does not HATE gays and encourage their bloody slaughter?  How does the God of the Bible not condone beating slaves?  How does the God of the Bible (or, more specifically, St.Paul) NOT hate women and subject them to inferior status to men?    Did you conveniently SKIP those parts of the Bible in Sunday school?   Or, as I suspect, are you just a hypocrite 'mainstream' believer who cherry-picks the 'good' parts of the bible, ignores the rest, and makes up your own religious mumbo-jumbo, rife with self-contradiction, circular appeal to 'faith' and the Bible, and an absolute renunciation of all reason?   What disaster or personal crisis in your life led you to believe such nonsense in the first place?  What emotions are interfering with your ability to think rationally?

    HYPOCRITE or FANATIC.  Those are the two types of Western faith-based religious devotees.  Whichever you are, BOTH encourage irrationality, and that irrationality leads to 9/11, the bombing of abortion clinics, the KKK, the Nazis, pedophile Catholic priests, Israel-Palestine conflict, racism, sexism, genocide, etc.  The list goes on.  I have a partial solution to the problem of irrationality--get rid of all faith-based religions and replace it with RATIONALITY.  This was essentially an idea started in the Enlightenment in modern history, though there are few good ideas that the Ancient Greeks did not already have, in different varieties.  The basic humanist idea is that respect for each other is a natural result of rational thinking.  It's not good for me to try to kill you, or vice versa, so we should cooperate.  It's good to believe something based on evidence.  It's good to think carefully to research the facts.  It's good to question assumptions and not have blind 'faith', especially in crucial matters of life and death.

    Clearly, I am in favor of rationality, and I think rationality is *good* (in fact, that is a natural conclusion from thinking rationality, observing the consequences of rational thinking, and observing the negative consequences of NOT thinking rationally).  Faith-based religions foster irrationality, which is BAD.  That is the difference between me and you, Ian.  You think IRRATIONALITY is GOOD, you perpetutate it with your religious beliefs, spread irrationality around the world like the disease that it is, and then you are surprised when the irrationality comes back to bite you in the butt, in the form of domestic and international terrorism, hate groups and other nonsense (ie, Creationism debates making American school children even stupider than they already are, the Catholic Church impeding Galileo and scientific progress, right-wing religious fanatics such as George Bush using 'God' as part of his 'policy', etc.) 

    That irrationality is BAD is so patently obvious by looking at world history and the corrosive effects of religion on mankind that it is simply preposterous for anybody to argue to the contrary.  In fact, the only way to deny that obvious fact is to have 'faith' that it's wrong.   How ironic and unsurprising.

    So continue Bible-banging, continue spreading the seed of irrationality, and continue making the world a crappy place. Quite frankly, I think the world has had enough terrorism of the body and mind for the past few thousand years.  The worst form of terrorism is the terrorism of the human intellect, and that is religion's true victim, like a priest raping a child, religion rapes your mind so that you cant' think straight. 

  • 4 years ago

    Ian_Sinclair

    First of all the towers u have pictured are not a result of Christianity they are off extremists of Muslims and do not reflect the majority who don't think such acts are justified.

    I will come back to you on ur mis understanding of the scrptures ok. Athiests such as yourself tend to read one line or 2 of a passage/s and mis quote it because your not open to understanding it, only justifying your stance and belief's.Your stance is understand able though. Please understand man kind kill each other with and without religous views and will use what ever excuse they can do to what they know they shouldn't.

    P.S. My family didn't talk much about religion either, i looked into it while i was already and adult.

  • 4 years ago

    SpaceOddity

    Thanks Woodshover.  But to me, it's not just about spewing an opinion, but about the progress of humanity and in preventing the positive harm to the progress caused by irrationality in general, specifically as it pertain to religion.  Ask any stem cell researcher in the US what religious irrationality does to impeded scientific progress.  Or go to any part of the world where disease and unwanted pregnancies proliferate--and you have organizations like the Catholic Church that oppose birth control.  Or of all people, the Mormons--whose actual religious teachings are racist--interfere with California politics to oppose the rights of gay partners to visit each other when dying in a hospital.  Irrationality makes the world a crappy place, and religion makes the world more irrational.  THAT is the argument.

  • 4 years ago

    Conflagration_Planet

    I couldn't agree more. Why should atheists have to remain silent to avoid offending religious jerks who blab all they want?

  • 4 years ago

    SpaceOddity

    Why don't you explain all the evil Bible quotes for us?  Why not show me where there is a flaw in the argument? 

    Are you saying that using your BRAIN is vanity?  LOGIC is vanity?  You're just embarrassing yourself by quoting yet another dubious Bible passage.  Why should anybody believe anything in such an evil, awful, corrupt book? 

    "Vanity" is not using your brain, pretending you know all the mysteries in the world from a corrupt, evil book. THAT is vanity.

    Tek, do you think you are any LESS irrational than the 9/11 bombers?  Is your Christianity any less ungrounded in reason (ie, only grounded 'faith') than Al-Qaeda terrorists?

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