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Job hunting sucks

Hi world,

So, after soccer yesterday, and then again this morning, my parents had me go out and collect job applications. Let me tell you a bit about me first. lol, well first off, i'm only 17, and have never held a job before. So, i have no experience doing anything other than just being alive lol.. and being a good big sis :D.

So, my friend stopped by, and she helped me pick out a job hunting outfit (pictured below)...




And now, this week (my spring break)... I'm sposed to secure a job.

So yea, this blog will chronicle my week of job hunting :)

Love,
Ang

Comments


  • 2 months ago

    Spacebux

    Wonder what ever happened to dear Andrea...

  • 7 months ago

    Spacebux

    Look - this is stuff you won't ever get in school.

    Teachers are typically not from the real-world of private industry.  They graduated from high school, went on to college to become teachers themselves, and are never outside the public sector.  Its rare that a teacher or professor in college has more than a few years job experience aside from public service.

    Which is why you often hear others in the media, government agencies, et. al., rag on Big Nasty Corporations!! -- simply because they do not understand how a company makes money or stays in business.

    There was a news rant in the 90s about how Nike pays $1.xx for every pair of shoes made in China, but sells them for $80-$120 here in the U.S.  The leftist media claimed Nike was being mean to its petty shop workers in China while gouging U.S. customers completely out of greed.  The sad truth was, of that $80~$120, a terribly large percentage of that was just going to all the various taxes Nike has to pay just to stay in business and import those shoes from factories in China.  I saw a diagram once of all the duties, taxes, and fees Nike had to pay on those shoes... it was phenomenal. 

    But, at the end of the day, if U.S. customers didn't want to pay $80-$120 / pair of shoes, no one was forcing them to.  Not like Obamacare, where we don't even HAVE a choice now... we MUST pay whether we like it or not.

  • 7 months ago

    ThatGirlAndrea

    No, I mean, I think you need a better outlet where more people will see it :) I'm not popular enough :(

  • 7 months ago

    Spacebux

    Sorry - just trying to help... :)

  • 7 months ago

    ThatGirlAndrea

    Honestly, i don't think my blog is the best outlet for your sage wisdom.

  • 7 months ago

    MJH25

    Holy ****! I think I'm gunna start robbing banks - at least that is dependent on my skills, haha! Really enjoyed reading your answer, spacebux!

    Keep in mind though that you are assuming that college does not give us any grant money and that we don't make money during college. For instance, if your family makes under I want to say $50,000 a year you are elgible for almost $5,000 in California grant money, and if you have a 3.5 G.P.A. or higher, you will get $12,192 each year for UC schools like UCLA and UCSD. So right there, if you live at home, you might only graduate with a few thousand dollars in debt. 

    https://students.ucsd.edu/finances/financial-aid/budgeting/undergrad-2014-15.html

    Take UCLA's sticker price. If I receive a $12,000 Cal Grant during my four year due to my stellar GPA and I live at home and eat my meals solely at my house, my costs drop from 25 grand to $8,000 a year. That's only $32,000 in debt when I graduate, assuming my parents or I don't pay anything towards it while in college. Now, I still don't want to have to shoulder that, but I might be more willing to take a $35,000 wage temporarily with the promise of higher pay or the possibility of job-hopping to a better company. Even if I don't get any grant money, by going to a local college I end up $100,000 in the whole...and the UC system is more expensive than the CSU system - typically 5-10k more!

    You could also assume that you go to Community College for two years and then transfer. CC is usually 5 thousand a year at most, so if I transfer after two years to UCLA I only graduate with $60,000 in debt, assuming I don't pay for and receive any help during college. 

    Not saying you are wrong, but you can't forget that sticker prices on college tuition is often more than you pay due to grants, working, or parental support. 

    I totally agree - the system is still too expensive, and if the economy sucks then good luck with getting a job. There needs to be a way to help the middle and lower classes earn enough money to pay off college loans and/or family debts.

    EDIT: Just realized I posted UCSD's cost of attendance. UCLA's is actually $300 cheaper per year.

  • 7 months ago

    Spacebux

    Long Answer, Part III:


    When you have a large pool of unemployed workers as well as the typical labor pool of high-school and college graduates coming .. as a large corporate employer, whom would you rather hire? In times of economic woe, HR departments are going to have a plenitude of prospects to select from. Julie with 8-10 years of work experience versus Andrea fresh out of college with only part-time experience and a college degree (supposedly in the field she’s applying for). Julie’s been unemployed for 8 months now; she used to work at IBM for $55,000 a year. Now Julie’s asking for a salary of $45,000 / year. Andrea’s looking for $40,000 / year. To a large corporation, the extra $5,000 / year for Julie will be worth it---Julie won’t need to be trained in what to do nearly as much as Andrea will be. Julie’s got the maturity to know what’s expected of her at the job as well. And, as Julie may have a kid or two, the corporation knows Julie will be less likely to bolt in a year’s time for another company offering $5 - $10K / annum more when economic times rebound and everyone starts hiring again.

     

     Andrea either needs to drop her salary request to $35,000 / year or wait until the eligible labor pool thins out enough to warrant someone hiring her at $40,000 / year with no practical experience.

     

     $10 / hr. * 40 hours / week * 50 weeks / year = $20,000. Now, tell me, how much does that college degree cost you? Say college costs $10,000 / semester for 4 years = $80,000 (not including food & transportation, & housing .. then you’re probably looking at $100,000+). If you paid $80,000 for a college degree, you’re not going to want a job at $35,000 / year. It’d take 7 years just to make up for those 4 years you we’re not working because you were studying something in college! You’re going to want a job making $50,000 / year or more soon after you leave college. Otherwise, those people making minimum wage for the four years you’ve spent $80,000 on college will be $160,000 ahead of you at the end of that 4 year period. Yeap – that’s right, a $160,000 penalty for going to college. $80,000 for your four-year degree plus the $80,000 minimum wage job you would have earned otherwise.

  • 7 months ago

    Spacebux

    Long Answer, Part II:


    Let’s get back to large corporations.

     

    Larger companies have established departments and sales channels. Let me use Oracle, HP, Dell, IBM as an example, as I know their business models fairly well. They generate revenue selling IT services and products to customers. Their customers range from government agencies to other corporations to school districts to individual consumers. They have office locations throughout the world. They may have production facilities in Texas, Thailand, Taiwan, or Mexico. They produce products there and ship them to wherever their customers are. They’ll have major divisions like: Production, Sales, Development, HR, Finance / Admin, and Support. Think about those divisions for a moment, which of those are producing revenue for the company, and which are costing the company money? The answer may surprise you... and they are often labelled as Profit / Cost centers. Profit centers make the company money. Cost centers, as you may have guessed, cost the company money.

     

    Production, Development, HR, Finance / Admin, Sales, Support – are all Cost centers. These divisions all cost the corporation money. Yes, all departments cost the corporation money to operate.

     

    Sales, Support – are usually the only Profit centers in such companies. Support? Yes, support contracts sold to customers to provide service in a timely manner is usually a profitable business for these IT companies. Otherwise, you’d never get help if/when you had a problem with your computer.

    Sales & Support are generating revenue by selling products and services to customers. Everything else is a boat anchor being dragged across the sea floor as the corporation tries to sail the ocean of profitability. (Nice metaphor?) Put in this perspective, can you start to comprehend why even large corporations are loathe to add new employees in times of economic stress? Probably not yet, but I’m getting there... promise.

  • 7 months ago

    Spacebux

    Long Answer, part I:


    Job Hunting in the 2010s.

    First, place yourself in the shoes of a typical employer. I’m going to divide this into two categories – small & large businesses (corporations – Boeing, Ford Motors, Johnson & Johnson, HP, GE, et. al.).


    A small business owner is typically one with fewer than 50 employees.. which is a great majority of businesses around the world. A large corporation is one with 2,000+ employees and has offices / locations around the globe. Medium companies – ones that fill the gap between large and small – are typically going to follow the large corporation example, but just on a smaller scale.


    A typical startup or established small business has a budget. What’s a budget? Simply, its whatever product or process it sells minus whatever costs it needs to produce those goods. For a gas station, it buys snacks and gas from larger vendors at say $1.00 / per whatever, and resells it to its customers at $1.25 / per whatever. Maybe it makes $.35 profit for every gallon of gas sold. (I’m just guessing here, I don’t really know what margins they actually have.) Every week, the gas station makes a profit on goods sold of say, $4,000 / week. From that profit they need to pay salaries of employees, sales tax, corporate profit tax, unemployment tax, land tax, franchise tax, and business insurance (against damages, law-suits, etc.). If they employ 8 part-time workers, that equates to 8 * $8/hr * 35 hrs / week = $2240 / week. $4,000 - $2,240 = $1,760. Sales tax at 8% = $320. $1,760 - $320 = $1,440. Every quarter, the IRS & State tax agencies require businesses to pay corporate tax on profit. That varies widely state-to-state, but still, a portion of that original $4,000 is taxed at say 20% (just to keep it simple!! Seriously, figuring this out as a startup will make your head spin without a tax consultant, which equals LESS money for a business to keep). $800 corporate tax to the state & IRS. $1,440 - $800 = $640. Now we’re getting down to seeing how with every tax a company needs to pay for, $4,000 of profit off goods & gas at a 7-11 or or BP gas station is hardly enough to keep the station open. Guess what happens with those places get fined by OSHA or the EPA??


    A small business is typically NOT a cash-rich entity. Cash-rich means - “plenty of spare cash after all taxes and expenses are taken out of profit”. So, if/when the government decides to increase the minimum wage from $7 / hr to $10 / hr, the business either has to a.) increase prices and hope that customers continue to buy the same number of products & services, or b.) reduce the number of salary hours to workers, or c.) close-up and go out of business. In my above example, the gas station was spending $2,240 on salary per week for 8 employees. Increasing that to $10 / hour (essentially a 25% pay raise for all staff), means the business must somehow find another $560 of budget per week just to pay for increased salary costs or it must look at options b.) and c.). Remember that $640 of profit left-over in my above example. I still did not include costs such as land-tax, business insurance, unemployment tax, and other fees (electricity, e.g.) in that $640. (In fact, at $4,000 / week, that gas station would be losing money....!) A 25% increase in minimum wage payments is a HUGE burden on small businesses. Huge.


    Now, larger corporations are teeming with cash in the bank accounts, right? Great, except, 80% of this country’s jobs are located at small businesses, and those are typically the ones running the stores you’re trying to get a job at, Andrea. The sign may say “BP” on the gas station sign, but that is most likely only a sign furnished by BP to that gas station. The gas stations around the country buy gas from whichever refinery has the lowest prices at the time they need it... i.e., they are typically small, independently owned / operated gas stations---small businesses with only a small tie to British Petroleum.

  • 7 months ago

    Spacebux

    Hmph.. my long answer seems to be too long for chess.com..  I may have to pare it down or slice it into two, three sections.

  • 7 months ago

    MJH25

    haha, I like your last point for your short answer, Spacebux! Didn't know that, but it ain't surprising!

    Andrea - good luck with that. I'll just sell my personal information on the internet in the form of surveys and just make a little bit of money - at least that's instant haha.

    I hope to work at my martial arts studio as an instructor this summer (depending on where I go to college), as well as intern (maybe paid!) at either a wedding film company or a web design company - it depends on how things work out. But I will get in because I know the owner(s) or one of the high-up employees, not because I have a criminal record and/or good grades. That seems more likely than flipping burgers at mickey-dees.

  • 7 months ago

    ThatGirlAndrea

    But I was hoping to find something this week :(

  • 7 months ago

    Spacebux

    Yes, Andrea, way-back-when, ... it was possible to walk into a place for a part-time job and get hired on the spot.

    There are still a few places like that, pizza-delivery, for example, still has a bunch of jobs like that.  Casinos are also generally hiring,  but you might not meet their minimum age requirements---and you're probably not looking for night-shifts.  :)

    You'll see a bunch of part-time work places with signs up saying "Now Accepting Applications!" or "Now Hiring!".  Which does not mean they are actively looking to hire new folk.  They're just collecting resumes for two purposes:  1.) when they DO need to fill a position, they have a ready-made list of people to call.  You may or may not be at the top of their list.  2.) a contact list--for potential mail / email advertisements and whatnot.  Once you give them your application, how long do you think they hang on to your information now?  Do you have any guarantee they will properly dispose of such information once they no longer need it?

    Do not give an filled-out application without knowing whether or when you might have an interview for the job you think you are applying for---as corny as that sounds.

    Be prepared to search for months.  Don't get depressed.

    @MJH - Long answer coming...

  • 7 months ago

    ThatGirlAndrea

    To answer your question. Yes, I'm looking at grocery stores, gas stations, resturants, and fast food joints.

    The way my parents, talk, when "they were my age", if you just showed up to one of those places, they'd ask "when can you start" and that would be the end of it.

    Now, I'm 4 1/2 days in, and jobless still. I've called all 8 places, every day, begging for an interview. But still.. nothing :(

     

    ---------------------------------------------

    @Spacebux -

    I see you've all been having interesting conversations :).

    I have two younger brothers, one's 7, the other's 3. They're going to either be worse off than me, or better off. I don't know yet.

  • 7 months ago

    Spacebux

    Ok - this will entail a long explanation, otherwise, I won't feel like I've answered your question sufficiently.

    Per Andrea's other post, short answer is:

    • record unemployment = record number of other skilled workers competing for the same number of limited openings.
    • record levels of regulations by the government = companies must pay a premium to hire full-time staff; i.e., each position is scrutinized ever more.
    • If/when minimum wage increases from ~$7 to $10/hr.,  instead of being able to hire 3 workers at $21 / hr., companies can only hire 2 workers at $20 / hr.  (Same budget, fewer hires.)  Which means, in-turn, you have MORE competition for fewer jobs... even part-time ones.
    • As the government becomes the largest employer in the land, the burden on the remaining private-sector tax payers only increases.  Hence, as taxes go up, budgets for other company expenditures goes down.  If a company cannot save money in other categories, the only place it can really cut costs is by either not hiring, or hiring less.
    • The government does not discern between a graduate with a GPA of 4.0 versus a graduate with a GPA of 1.6 and a couple of felony charges.  (Look at how many criminals are working as 'Navigators' for Obamacare, handling personal information.)

    Ok, I think you are intelligent enough to piece all those components together.  I'll start working on my masterpiece long answer in a bit.  But, those bullet points will be the backbone.

  • 7 months ago

    MJH25

    Ok, spacebux, so how do you suggest students like me get a job to pay off the college loans we will have (other than pawning it off on the government). You said, "Companies are only hiring mediocre staff for part-time positions."

    Maybe this is boastful, but I don't think I'm mediocre and I've got the GPA, volunteer hours, and test scores to prove it. According to you, though, companies will take a less qualified candidate to save on money. Doesn't that make them less productive though?

  • 7 months ago

    Spacebux

    Ok - Andromeda ... (bet no one's called you that yet ;) ), seriously, what type of job are you trying to get? 

    The outfit you're wearing and your friend's agape mouth tell me you're looking for part-time work at a supermarket. 


    Way-Back-When-Story Time.


    When I was a young'ne, in the late 80s, early 90s, the mantra was "work hard in school, get good grades, that will lead to a good college, which will in-turn lead you to a good career at a prestigious company".

    Problem was, as the 90s rolled on, a majority of the companies' HR departments stopped promoting from within, and, instead, refilled elite management positions with friends & pals of the Boards of Directors, CEOs, and whatnot.  The whole notion of keeping one's nose to the grindstone, working hard in a company, and one would be rewarded with a promotion after a few years was a quickly becomming a farce.

    I found that out after a few years working in a large corporation - that a meager 1~2% annual raise was all I would ever be able to look forward to.  In the heyday of the IT industry, moving from company-to-company, one could get a 10~20% increase in pay.  Hence, many of us IT guys were moving companies to stay apace or grow our take-home pay.

    One day, a Harvard Business School graduate wrote a thesis about globalization of company IT practices to save costs... or something thereabouts.  The paper, written by a grad student with 0 outside, real-world experience, started a firestorm of corporate down-sizing of IT operations around the world... about the year ~2001.  While companies struggled to re-align their IT operations with this sacred text from Harvard, IT operations were thrown into a quandry.  I'm sure I had a great YouGottaBeKiddingMe look on my face when I found out our IT operation in Tokyo - which was 2nd only in size to the head office operation in Europe - was being placed under Singapore's operations (lumping all of Asia's IT operations under a single roof).  Until then, Singapore had had maybe 10% of the systems and personnel we did in Tokyo.  Still, I decided to go the way of the IT drifters after that... made all the difference for the next decade until the plethora of liberal policies that created a huge housing bubble finally burst in 2007.. creating the depression we are yet in today.


    So what?   very good question.  Moral of the story - its nearly impossible to plan for a career thesedays.  Any high school counselor still selling you that line is full of it.  It hasn't been true since the 70s... if I am to believe the stories fed to me when I was a youth.  If I were a junior in high-school today, I'd be spending my time working on skills that'll make me useful to a company: linguistics, technical skills, biological know-how (bio-tech or nursing/medical), accounting, etc.  Otherwise, either you're looking for a job in the public sector---woo-hoo! ---or, you're going to have to make your own job (in your own company).  Maybe farming, but socialists are hoping to nationalize all farms in the long-run; good luck with that 30-40 years from now. 

    Companies are only hiring mediocre staff for part-time positions.  Thanks to Obamacare, companies are even less-likely to take on full-time hires now.  If Obama gets his $10/hr. minimum wage increase, it'll be even less likely that companies hire young people like yourself for entry level positions.

    Its not bright, I know that.. but, hopefully, you and your brother can get a good job somewhere, but you two need to think of your careers in a different aspect.  The career paths just aren't there anymore... at least, I never came across any.

  • 7 months ago

    Spacebux

    safe..!   :)

  • 7 months ago

    ThatGirlAndrea

    technically speaking, a blog is a forum

  • 7 months ago

    Spacebux

    I feel so much better knowing I can comment on Andrea's blog and not hear/read: "hey, take it to a forum!"  :)

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