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The Halloween Gambit...Refuted

First off, I should say that I am an avid fan of the Halloween Gambit, which is very entertaining. However, as I was doing some opening research I came across this line, which keeps the piece and still retains advantage. Somebody please come up with a counter-refutation, so it can remain alive!

Comments


  • 3 months ago

    gambitlover

    11. .. Nf4 was already known 7 years ago and discussed in Kaissiber 27 of  april 2007.

    Why should it be the refutation of the Halloween ? Its only a refutation of the 11. Nb5 line.  But 11. Qe2+ is still playable with good chances for White.

  • 4 months ago

    ShazMat

    Has anyone found a problem with 12. Bxf4?

  • 21 months ago

    gambitlover

    About the 11.  Nb5?  (the so-called Sargnagel line)  : 

    the Nxf4 move indeed eliminates all power in that line. However, further analyses and test games showed that White has a good alternative 11. Qe2+

    Black has two good moves : 11. .. Qe6 ( leading to an exchange of Queens )  or  the sharp 11. .. Kd8. The analyses was published by Maurits Wind in the april 2007 in Kaissiber 27.

  • 21 months ago

    gambitlover

    << quote :

    Grandmaster (GM) Larry Kaufman wrote in 2004 that the Müller-Schulze Gambit is refuted by 4...Nxe5 5.d4 Nc6 6.d5 Bb4! 7.dxc6 Nxe4 8.Qd4 Qe7, which he attributes to the Polish IM Jan Pinski.[2][3] Pinski in 2003 analyzed 9.Qxg7 Nxc3+ 10.Be3 Nd5+ 11.c3 Rf8 12.cxb4 Nxe3 13.fxe3 Qxb4+, writing that "Black is very close to winning". 

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_gambit

    <<

    This is nonsense. I already wrote in oct 2005 that the best answer is not 9.Qxg7 but 9.Be3 ( 9. .. f5 10.Bd3!). Games are Torrecillas-Maciaga,2003 and Wind-Torrecillas,2003,both ending in a draw.

     

  • 21 months ago

    lboraz

    6...Nxe4 refutes the gambit

  • 2 years ago

    Blitz-Ace

    [COMMENT DELETED]
  • 4 years ago

    vovina

     I agree. I do think White has chances at about the same level as the Canal variation ( 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.d3 d6 6.Bg5 ) which is considered equal but players like Capablanca,Korchnoi, and Larsen used to slowly grind out a good game.

     Pinski, in his work " The Italian Game And The Evans Gambit " , discusses the Canal lines in detail showing how black has to stay alert to keep from losing. The games I've played with this particuliar Halloween Gambit variation ( mostly against various infernal machines ) tend to follow these themes - Black occasionly earns his half point, but more often loses the grinders !

  • 4 years ago

    bobobbob

    It equalizes at least, and more importantly, takes a lot of dynamism out of the game.

  • 4 years ago

    vovina

     But this Pinski variation relies on White playing the suspect 9.Q:g7. After 9.Be3 White transposes to lines that have lead to wins and draws in Over-The-Board/ Correspondence play since 2005. White will have to decide which square the King's Bishop maximizes dynamic potential ( like 9..f5 10.Bc4 or 9...0-0 10.Bd3 ) and whether to aim directly for the ending.

     So this doesn't appear to be a refutation !

  • 4 years ago

    bobobbob

    Being down in material is unimportant, as long as white has the killer pawn on d6 he should be fine.

    I think black could return material to get a better endgame, that was one of the "refutations", but I doubt that matters unless you're a master.

    Grandmaster (GM) Larry Kaufman wrote in 2004 that the Müller-Schulze Gambit is refuted by 4...Nxe5 5.d4 Nc6 6.d5 Bb4! 7.dxc6 Nxe4 8.Qd4 Qe7, which he attributes to the Polish IM Jan Pinski.[2][3] Pinski in 2003 analyzed 9.Qxg7 Nxc3+ 10.Be3 Nd5+ 11.c3 Rf8 12.cxb4 Nxe3 13.fxe3 Qxb4+, writing that "Black is very close to winning". 

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_gambit

  • 4 years ago

    vovina

     You are welcome ! The themes in this line resemble those of the " Fritz7/Wind variation " found on pg.11 of Keiser's " Critical Lines In The Halloween Gambit ". This line goes 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.N:e5 N:e5 5.d4 Nc6 6.d5 Ne5 7.f4 Ng6 8.e5 Ng8 9.d6 c:d6 10.e:d6 Qf6 11.Nb5 Kd8 12.Be3 N:f4.

    Now best for White is 13.Qd2 Ne6 14.0-0-0. Fritz7 recommends 14..b6 and Wind found 15.Bc4. After 15..Ba6 I prefer 16.Qd5 to the book 16.Bd5. 16.Bd5 allows Black to obtain counterplay after 16..B:b5 17.B:a8 Nh6 ( 18.Bf3 Nf5; or 18.Be4 Ng4 19.Qd5 Bc6. )

     It thus appears to be the case that White had best not " win " material at the expense of time and dynamics in the Halloween gambit. If Black wants to return material, however, then White usually has a slightly better ending - and that's what makes this opening so interesting !1

  • 4 years ago

    bobobbob

    Except for me that is Tongue out

  • 4 years ago

    Clavius

    I'm starting to think that these aggressive gambits can always be refuted if you have enough time and a strong computer.  Best I could find was 13.Qf3 Qe5+   14.Qe3 Bxd6   15.Nxa8 and you're not much better off than in the main line.  Sorry, but let's all admit we would never find this line OTB against a prepared player of the White pieces.

  • 4 years ago

    bobobbob

    Thanks, I do have to say that line gives white decent chances. Some further analysis:

     

  • 4 years ago

    vovina

     And if this sequence is not to your liking, try transposing to other variations by 12.Be3 Qe5 13.Qd2 Ne6 14.0-0-0.

  • 4 years ago

    aaronxa

    [COMMENT DELETED]
  • 4 years ago

    aaronxa

    [COMMENT DELETED]
  • 4 years ago

    bobobbob

    That is an interesting try! With my thinking, the lines go: 14...Bxd6 (stops the mate threat) 15.Nxa8 Nf6 leaves black up in development, but white is temporarily up in material (I say this because the knight on a8 is trapped). However, this puts white on the defensive, which is definitely not the original idea of the Halloween Gambit! I still think black has the better chances, but white could win if he gets his king to safety.

  • 4 years ago

    aaronxa

    Afer 11...Nxf4 12. Bxf4 Qxf4 13. Qe2+ Kd8 14. Nc7 puts black in a world of hurt (threatens mate, and the rook.)

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