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Mathematics and chess

Last updated on Tue, 10/27/2009 at 7:01am.

The number of distinct chess positions after White’s first move is 20 (16 pawn moves and 4 knight moves).  There are 400 distinct chess positions after two moves (first move for White, followed by first move for Black).  There are 5,362 distinct chess positions or 8,902 total positions after three moves (White’s second move).  There are 71,852 distinct chess positions or 197,742 total positions after four moves (two moves for White and two moves for Black).  There are 809,896 distinct positions or 4, 897,256 total positions after 5 moves.  There are 9,132,484 distinct positions or 120,921,506 total positions after 6 moves (three moves for White and three moves for Black).  The total number of chess positions after 7 moves is 3,284,294,545.  The total number of chess positions is about 2x10 to the 46 power.

Comments:

by dakingatlast - 2 years ago
newark,nj United States
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 4
I love math!
by digdugdiggy - 2 years ago
Dayton, TX United States
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 14

Very good to know.

I was wondering if someone was gifted enough to be able to memorize almost every chess position, and know what the best moves were in what position. Theoretically, they could win 100%. Its good to know that they would have to be REALLY REALLY gifted to accomplish this, heh. 

by Phobetor - 2 years ago
Eindhoven Netherlands
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 1201
So then you'd not only have to know all positions, but also know what to play in all those positions... That's about as much as knowing where every atom in the universe is located... Wink
by dylan - 2 years ago
Elk Grove, IL United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 268

checkers was just cracked.  It took, if I remeber the article correctly, about 200 super-computers linked together to calculate an unbeatable strategy, which could be stored in about 256mb.  I remember when as a kid I "cracked" tic-tac-toe.  Much easier.  Chess I think would be immpossible.  Except maybe in the future using quantum infinite-loop fractal vectors.

by grandhunter05 - 2 years ago
phil Philippines
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 4
maybe its possible for someone to memorize all of those moves and possitions. MAYBE?
by StacyBearden - 2 years ago
New Caprica United States
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 900
Quantum infinite-loop fractal vector. Quantum infinite-loop fractal shmector. I just need an abacus and a post it. Cool
by Scoville - 2 years ago
K.C. MO United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 1

That would be impossible. But someone could memorize a good percentage of them. Ever hear about that guy who memorized enough of the 'number pie' that he could recite it for nearly nine hours! it was on 60 minutes or something, sounded legit.Surprised

 

by aniakovas - 2 years ago
Wales United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 4

Chess works because players are in a "phase space" of useful possibles.  This space might be described as a cloud of the past and future possible moves perceived of as legitimately tactical possibles, from the point of view of the attack and defensive positions.

The limited scope of the board, a finite plane with quantized positions, still gives large numbers of possibilities, though nowhere near something like Graham's Number (Weisstein, Eric W. "Graham's Number." From MathWorld--A Wolfram Web Resource. http://mathworld.wolfram.com/GrahamsNumber.html).  In fact many of the positions can be discounted, which is what makes chess playable, (there are arguments about whether chess is NP-Hard, it seems to me that is the strongest computers can beat the strongest humans then it is not, but this is my opinion, I am unable to determine if it has been mathematically shown to be NP-Hard), for our purposes as humans the finite subsets of positions properly considered is manageable precisely because only useful subsets are considered.

I am  sure that everyone on the site will be aware that every piece moved affects every other and piece and the influence on it intimately for every move.  This is part of the finite universe scenario, and does not apply in situations which we encounter in everyday life, and so we consider subsets of the possible.  Chess is not infinite in extent, clearly, and the consideration of the movement phase space limits further the considerations we have to ponder while playing.  Without doing this, the possibilities are too large for most minds to consider, the phase space IS very large after all.

I know all of this, but it still doesn't make me any less of an awful player.

by travellsky - 2 years ago
England
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 5

Im going for a beer    phew!

by Royd - 2 years ago
Jose Dalman ZN Philippines
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 107
imagine if there is a formula in math where you can solve the good move....how i wish there is....
by tony23 - 2 years ago
Riverside, CA United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 77

It would not be possible, based on the numbers given. Even if you could "store" one complete chess position in every neuron in your brain, there are only about 100 billion neurons (10xE10) - that is:

100,000,000,000 

and there are 20xE45 possible moves - that is:

20,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

 

BTW, Physiscists estimate 10xE72 to 10xE87 particles in the entire universe.

by bosco - 2 years ago
International
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 230

Math is like love - a simple idea, but it can get complicated.

 

Oh , and never forget -

2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2. 

by silentfilmstar13 - 2 years ago
Medford, OR United States
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 2143
In theory, chess can be cracked.  Why would we want that?  The game would die that day.
by Samishere - 2 years ago
Kelowna BC Canada
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 42

here here ill drink to that dont crack chess it will ruin the game

 


by 3point141592654 - 2 years ago
Zug Switzerland
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 25
I don't even like the fact that chess openings have been 'cracked' - it makes the game too mechanical. I loooove math (see my username and avatar)! Quantum infinite-loop fractal vectors are probably not enough to 'crack' chess. Even if you sprinkle on some photon-powered computers. Integrating the quantum levels could define more chess position and then there is hope of chess ever being 'cracked.'
by Frankdawg - 2 years ago
Parma Ohio United States
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 93

If both sides play at a rating far beyond now with super computers in like 50 years do u guys think every game will be drawn or will white always win b/c gets 1st move?


by Frankdawg - 2 years ago
Parma Ohio United States
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 93
black is always 1/2 a step behind white i think at extemely high lvl play that 1/2 a step will make it so black can never win, and will only be able too lose or draw, if some how we got alien advanced technology and went even beyond that and both sides played absolutely perfectly white would always win.
by Frankdawg - 2 years ago
Parma Ohio United States
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 93
you gotta take the 50 move rule out at that lvl b/c somtimes it takes more if u make all the right moves.
by Fellippo - 2 years ago
Zlín Czech Republic
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 556
I have experience that mathematics are good chess players. They are faster in combinations.

by jstar007 - 2 years ago
MIAMI United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 1

my head hertz!

 


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