The shot only helps; pain is a very superficial form of hurt by comparison. I'm not sure where you are going with that, but proceed; I'm enjoying the ride!

Well, I think I would not push him.

Now, if it were a fat woman on the other hand....

I had to think about this a bit, so sorry for the delay. I think I agree with you.

Because what most people would call negligible pain is what most people would call negligible theft... i.e. if all you steal is bread.  It's nice that you're comparing the "hurt" even though one is action and the other inaction.  That's how many compare stealing to prevent death... the inaction packs a lot more hurt :p

Your answer seems to put you on more the legalism side of things... i.e. something is wrong because the law says so.  But surely causing pain has more moral implications than, say, theft from a wealthy person who will never notice.

I'm sure many people, when I bring up male discrimination, think I am just trying to be difficult, nitpicking the tiniest problems. But to me, it's not subtle. Guys, how often have you seen, whether in life or on TV, a guy comforting another girl when she cries, but does the polar opposite when a guy does it?

The whole concept of "be a gentleman" is something I have a problem with. The point is, you can treat a woman equally, repsect all of their rights, yet be called "not a gentleman" because you were supposed to treat them better than you would treat a male, not just equally. Sometimes, I think our society is conditioned, and, if unintentionally, taught, to be nicer, more lenient to girls than to boys.

Wafflemaster: I disagree: the fact that stealing is against the law is not the reason I think stealing the bread is wrong.

"But surely causing pain has more moral implications than, say, theft from a wealthy person who will never notice."

Well, the one stubborn thing I can do is say that not taking the bread is not causing the pain, just like how not giving doesn't make you a murderer.

However, I must say, that was worded beautifully. I mean, it's not really that different from the points you were making previously, but somehow, the specific way that you phrased that makes me think about this thing a little differently.

This bothered me a lot as a kid too (not that you're a kid, but it bothered me too, and I was a kid once ;)

Because to my innocent little life, I knew nothing of how women were treated by society (and continue to be treated in many parts of the world).

So short answer, it's society trying to make up for past sins... people began to realize women aren't some kind of lesser-human and should have just as many rights and as men.

It's even messier because discrimination still exists.

And not giving the shot is not causing the pain   I'm replacing fatal hunger with fatal disease and stealing bread with painful shot.

You don't have to agree or anything, just trying to make my POV more apparent.

I'm glad you're not one of those legalism type people (I suspected you weren't ;)

"So short answer, it's society trying to make up for past sins..."

That's a good point too. I understand that. I guess this is just another "practical method" to make sure that women at least are treated decently, even if they are sometimes treated better

Nevertheless, women's rights are not new anymore, so is that really such a great excuse now?

You simply don't understand it. A woman wants to have equal rights but not treated equally. If I'm carrying something heavy, it makes me happy if a man offers me to help, for me it's heavier than for him. If we walk I want the man to adjust the speed to mine and not leave me behind (and yes that actually did happen so now and then, with the argument that their legs were larger and thus it was difficult for them to walk at my speed and that I just had to adapt to them - losers!).

As for the crying part, I would try to comfort a guy aswell. But it might be a no no for a relationship if he does that to often.

"A woman wants to have equal rights but not be treated equally"

! Wow! A statement that you don't often see. But I guess, deep down, a lot of us had that feeling.

No, I get you, with that whole carrying example. It's just that, what seems to be the societal implication sometimes, is not "It's easier for you to carry than me," but instead more like "You should serve your woman because you are lucky that she is even interested in a loser like you."

Don't you ever think that sort of message is being sent? I don't have a specific example at the moment, but at least in my country that atmosphere can't be ignored.

How women (or any large group) are treated by society can't change that fast.  Women's role in society didn't change on the day they were allowed to vote or with the civil rights movement... they're just milestones along the way.

That's why in sitcoms and such it's funny when the man is a bumbling idiot and the wife keeps things together... something is often funny when things are out of context... like finding an astronaut in the brig of a sunken 1800s pirate ship.  If the women was bumbling and the man had to correct her every 5 seconds it would be depressing not funny because those stereotypes still hold.

But in a more concerete way you can look at college majors / graduates / pay rates / things like this.

But wait, with the exception of crying, I don't think any of those examples are gender specific.  Different men can carry different weights, and it makes sense that they should be distributed as such.  Different women have different lengths of legs, and it's easier for the fast walkers to slow down than visa-versa so the reasonable correction should be obvious when these women walk together.

If you strip these away, it's only on the matter of tears that there's an actual double standard.

I don't agree with how far you take certain things, but this post I can easily agree with.

I think it's fun how we're pretending men being asked to carry bags is prejudice equivalent to a panel of men deciding how women's reproductive rights should be regulated.

When it comes to 1 on 1 relationships society can shove it lol.  The important thing is to communicate the things that are important to you, and if you find someone who respects that you can have a good relationship.  Don't play society games... the man should carry this or that.  If he thinks it's important to you, he should offer, and if he doesn't offer and it was important to you, then you should talk about it and he should understand :p

It doesn't have to do with equality.. I do not have a problem with a bloke who cries to often, I'm just not attracted to him. We still could be good friends but chances for a real relationship will be lower.  The same that I'm totally not attracted to woman. Aaaw to this logic i'm discriminating woman by treating them unequally with their relationship chances with me. So please make of attraction and relationship chances and equality between the sexes two different subjects.

I do not believe in equality. People are NOT equal. They do however have equal rights. Further you have to adapt to the person needs. Which means for example if you see someone carrying something heavy and that person clearly has difficulty with it you offer help. It does not matter if that is a old male or a small female.

Well, see, that's what I'm talking about... you read into things too much / take things too far.  But again I agree with you in principal.

Wafflemaster: I totally get your point. To be honest, I think the whole "bumbling idiot man" thing, although obviously having nothing to do with the negative female stereotypes, it also creates negative stereotypes for men.

But ok, it's comedy, and trust me, I laugh at plenty of dumb men on TV. It's alright. But that's because when I laugh at it, I think "that person is so dumb!", instead of "this shows how dumb men are!" I still don't like the nature of creating new stereotypes to replace the old ones.

A very logical statement. With job chances I want to have equal rights. Which means that my gender should not matter, only my qualities do. But I do not want to be treated as a man, as I simply am not.

You really seem a guy to me with to many broken and not working relationships. Really try to find a girl who loves you. She will not use you, but simply wants to be with you. However do help her with carrying for example heavy things or with fixing things in the house. If the relationship is healthy you will do things for each other and she will try to be there for you too.