Monroi and Rules on Notation

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7th June 2009, 05:25pm
#1
by P_U_N
Tyler, TX United States
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 961

I've recently started playing OTB and a few opponents have had a Monroi.  My questions are

 

  1. What are the rules regarding these? (I've read one statement that says you must make the move before you notate it, is this true with pen/paper?)
  2. Can you flip the device the view the board from opponents view?

Also on a side note - if taking notes with pen and paper, can you note (on the flip side) what you were thinking when you make the move? ...for example - moved rook here to put pressure on bishop...or something like that.

 

THanks,

7th June 2009, 06:34pm
#2
by KillaBeez
Kansas United States
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 4069

You must first make your move before recording it on the Monroi.

You can use it to look on both sides of the board

You can never take notes while using pen and paper.

16th June 2009, 12:55pm
#3
by NM ajgreen
Dallas United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 61

Rule 15a states that you must make your move before you record it, even if you're using pen and paper.  Most players don't care one way or another and some tournament directors even state at the beginning of the tournament that it is still the player's choice unless he/she is using a Monroi!

Just a side not on that: I'm not bothered by my opponent writing down his move before he makes it, as I tend to do it (most often in the opening, where there's no thinking about my next move).  I feel like it's poor etiquette, though, to write down a move and try your very best to conceal it on your notation!  It's one thing to write out a move just before you make it, or to even think about it a second time before you make the move, while it's another thing to write it down, conceal it, think about it for 20 minutes, and then change it to another move (and repeat).

16th June 2009, 12:58pm
#4
by richie_and_oprah
Marie Byrd Land International
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 1861

I believe, rule15a has been changed back to legally allow writing moves before making them.

 

They have changed it three times in two years, actually.

16th June 2009, 01:25pm
#5
by qixel
Los Angeles United States
Member Since: May 2009
Member Points: 753

According to the latest revisions to USCF rules, when using a MonRoi a player must make the move first and then record it.

When using pen and paper, the move may be written first and then made, as long as this method is not being used as a memory aid.

You can access the USCF revisions here (Warning: this is a link to a pdf file): USCF Rules Revisions

Amy

16th June 2009, 01:35pm
#6
by NM Reb
Lisbon Portugal
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 4072
ajgreen wrote:

Rule 15a states that you must make your move before you record it, even if you're using pen and paper.  Most players don't care one way or another and some tournament directors even state at the beginning of the tournament that it is still the player's choice unless he/she is using a Monroi!

Just a side not on that: I'm not bothered by my opponent writing down his move before he makes it, as I tend to do it (most often in the opening, where there's no thinking about my next move).  I feel like it's poor etiquette, though, to write down a move and try your very best to conceal it on your notation!  It's one thing to write out a move just before you make it, or to even think about it a second time before you make the move, while it's another thing to write it down, conceal it, think about it for 20 minutes, and then change it to another move (and repeat).


 In FIDE events you cannot conceal your moves nor your scoresheet from your opponent. In fact, if your opponent asks to see your scoresheet ( maybe he missed a move or something) you have no choice but to let him see it, but it must be his clock running when this takes place. In fide events however the scoresheets are supplied for all players and thus considered property of the organization and not property of the players. USCF is a horse of a different color. Wink

16th June 2009, 01:46pm
#7
by richie_and_oprah
Marie Byrd Land International
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 1861

Actually, in USCF the scoresheets are officially owned by the tournament, even if they are the legal property of the player.  All tourmanents need to offer scoresheets but players are not obligated to use the "official" scorsheet and can use their own.  There is a lot of area that is in limbo. no doubt, and there is  conflict in some of the rules on these matters.

Of course, the monroi adds a layer, and a confusing one.  Oficially, scores on monroi remain the property of monroi.  Monroi can use them for whatever pruposes they wish and players have no legal rights here.  Of course, monroi only can access those game if they are being relayed during the event of if the files are shared afterwards, so its a weird legal issue currently.

 

In the USCF, if you do not allow your opponent to see it the scorsheet, one can get the TD and the TD will enforce the rule.  Technically, scoresheets cannot be removed from the table during play (like taking them to the loo), or removed from sight of players without permission or for legitimate reasons.

3rd July 2009, 10:42am
#8
by Nytik
Southampton United Kingdom
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 4615

I have a question: If my opponent only has one legal move, am I allowed to write down their move before they play it? Admittedly, I don't play in USCF tournaments, but I am curious nonetheless.

3rd July 2009, 10:49am
#9
by KillaBeez
Kansas United States
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 4069

If someone only has one legal move, why would they need to write it down?

3rd July 2009, 10:50am
#10
by Nytik
Southampton United Kingdom
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 4615
KillaBeez wrote:

If someone only has one legal move, why would they need to write it down?


 Because otherwise your scoresheet is incomplete? I'm not saying it's one move from checkmate, rather they have one legal move at that moment.

3rd July 2009, 10:52am
#11
by KillaBeez
Kansas United States
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 4069

But why would they need to write it down before they move?

 

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