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1. d4 d5 2.c3


  • 15 months ago · Quote · #1

    gyrados_2002

    Can anyone give me the name of this opening? Also, can you give me some information on how to play against it as black? 

    Thanks,

    gyrados_2002

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #2

    Kens_Mom

    Looks like the Colle or London system.  Not sure how to handle it as black.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #3

    AndyClifton

    Can also go into a Stonewall.  Can't really say what to do until a few more moves have been played.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #4

    uhohspaghettio

    It seems pretty much nonsense, even 2. e3 ala Colle is better. There's nothing to play against, per se. Just pretend you're white and remember he can move Qa4 and Qb3 now (but not Nc3).

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #5

    AnthonyCG

    It's actually innacurate imo. Black now has 2...Nc6! 3.Nf3 f6 and White can't stop the quick e5 push. If White had played e3 instead this probably wouldn't work.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #6

    Kens_Mom

    Kingscrusher has a few videos on the "Reversed Slav," which results in the same pawn structure.  You should consider watching it.

    But like what Uhoh said, 2.c3 move is rather passive, allowing black to comfortably develop, castle, etc.  In other words, you shouldn't be concerned too much about figuring out how to counter this particular opening.  Playing against it normally should the job done.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #7

    DrSpudnik

    It looks like the "I-don't-want-to-study-openings" Opening.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #8

    Kens_Mom

    AnthonyCG wrote:

    It's actually innacurate imo. Black now has 2...Nc6! 3.Nf3 f6 and White can't stop the quick e5 push. If White had played e3 instead this probably wouldn't work.


     4.Bf4 can stop the e5 push.  Moreover, black's 3.f6 looks like an unnecessary pawn advance that weakens the kings side and takes away the f6 square from the kings side knight.  Also, I would delay moving the queens knight to c6 to leave the option of advancing the queens pawn to flank the center.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #9

    AnthonyCG

    Kens_Mom wrote:
    AnthonyCG wrote:

    It's actually innacurate imo. Black now has 2...Nc6! 3.Nf3 f6 and White can't stop the quick e5 push. If White had played e3 instead this probably wouldn't work.


     4.Bf4 can stop the e5 push.  Moreover, black's 3.f6 looks like an unnecessary pawn advance that weakens the kings side and takes away the f6 square from the kings side knight.  Also, I would delay moving the queens knight to c6 to leave the option of advancing the queens pawn to flank the center.


    This actually leads to a position similar to the Trompowsky. Black can play 4...g5 5.Bg3 g4 6.Nd2 e5. Although Black's kingside "looks messy" White has no way to take advantage of it.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #10

    FirebrandX

    "Passive" opening moves by white can carry a lot of sting via reversed openings. If you're not familiar with what white is up to, you could wind up in a reversed opening you'd never go into normally. So what happens is white gets a comfortable opening line that you might not know the theory behind. I do this all the time in blitz games, playing 1.a3 that players laugh at, but I end up winning most of them as I simply play a reversed slav or reversed Caro-Kann that black then fudges up.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #11

    uhohspaghettio

    FirebrandX wrote:

    "Passive" opening moves by white can carry a lot of sting via reversed openings. If you're not familiar with what white is up to, you could wind up in a reversed opening you'd never go into normally. So what happens is white gets a comfortable opening line that you might not know the thoery behind. I do this all the time in blitz games, playing 1.a3 that players laugh at, but I end up winning most of them as I simply play a reversed slav or reversed Caro-Kann that black then fudges up.


    By using your initial 1. a3 to your advantage at some point? If not then it doesn't count, you're just handing your opponent the first move.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #12

    Kens_Mom

    AnthonyCG wrote: This actually leads to a position similar to the Trompowsky. Black can play 4...g5 5.Bg3 g4 6.Nd2 e5. Although Black's kingside "looks messy" White has no way to take advantage of it.

     You're right, white looks too cramped to crash into black's open kingside.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #13

    mrguy888

    uhohspaghettio wrote:

    By using your initial 1. a3 to your advantage at some point? If not then it doesn't count, you're just handing your opponent the first move.


    What he means is this:

    I play 1. e4 and I do not play the slav against d5. If white suckers me into playing the white side of the slav I could get into trouble because I know nothing about it while he is well versed in the opening.

    Sure it may not objectively be best but since when is being black a decisive disadvantage? I would venture that the pratical benifits outweigh the theretical costs up to a fairly high playing level. You have to be careful that you don't give them white in a system that they know.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #14

    uhohspaghettio

    mrguy888 wrote:
    uhohspaghettio wrote:

    By using your initial 1. a3 to your advantage at some point? If not then it doesn't count, you're just handing your opponent the first move.


    What he means is this:

    I play 1. e4 and I do not play the slav against d5. If white suckers me into playing the white side of the slav I could get into trouble because I know nothing about it while he is well versed in the opening.

    Sure it may not objectively be best but since when is being black a decisive disadvantage? I would venture that the pratical benifits outweigh the theretical costs up to a fairly high playing level. You have to be careful that you don't give them white in a system that they know.


    How do you know what he means? Maybe he is going to use 1. a3 for something, it was a genuine question from me.

    And, your opponent would be an idiot to start entering a sharp system he didn't know well, especially since it's obvious that's what you must be trying to do. Any player of any basic quality is going to be satisfied with a small advantage as black in this type of situation.  

    Considering also how useful 1. a6 is in the sicilian and how if you play 2. e4 then it reversed (a3) would prevent the Ruy Lopez reversed, he will likely not play 1. ...e5 also. He is not going to be walking straight into your accelerated dragon trickery if that's what you think. 

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #15

    mrguy888

    I should have phrased it "I think what he means is:". I get my knowledge of what he means by my reading conprehension skills.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #16

    AndyClifton

    That's still not good enough!

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #17

    mrguy888

    AndyClifton wrote:

    That's still not good enough!


    For uhoh nothing ever is.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #18

    uhohspaghettio

    mrguy888 wrote:
    AndyClifton wrote:

    That's still not good enough!


    For uhoh nothing ever is.


    yeah it is, I just found it strange you answered for him.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #19

    FirebrandX

    uhohspaghettio wrote:
    mrguy888 wrote:
    uhohspaghettio wrote:

    By using your initial 1. a3 to your advantage at some point? If not then it doesn't count, you're just handing your opponent the first move.


    What he means is this:

    I play 1. e4 and I do not play the slav against d5. If white suckers me into playing the white side of the slav I could get into trouble because I know nothing about it while he is well versed in the opening.

    Sure it may not objectively be best but since when is being black a decisive disadvantage? I would venture that the pratical benifits outweigh the theretical costs up to a fairly high playing level. You have to be careful that you don't give them white in a system that they know.


    How do you know what he means? Maybe he is going to use 1. a3 for something, it was a genuine question from me.

    And, your opponent would be an idiot to start entering a sharp system he didn't know well, especially since it's obvious that's what you must be trying to do. Any player of any basic quality is going to be satisfied with a small advantage as black in this type of situation.  

     


    You'd be surprised at how many decent players get hoodwinked by it in blitz. That's the key thing to remember about my reply: I'm talking about the surprise value in a blitz game. Most players (even decent ones) will attempt to grab the center if white doesn't. Of these, very few realized what I was up to, and the ones that did had a fair deal of time trouble trying to remember the moves in a reversed order. My favorite is going into a reversed Caro-Kann, where a3 does nothing to disrupt the structures needed to play a proper Caro-Kann. Of those that realized they needed to play a reversed white system as black against it, very few actually managed to handle it properly. Most would try the advance variation and end up mishandling the queenside play. I think of all the 1.a3 games I've played against random opponents on playchess, I've scored close to 85% success rate.

    Again, it all goes back to the surprise factor and the loss of time the black players often cough up while trying to visualize the reversed opening properly. Meanwhile I'm right at home with it and fully comfortable. In fact, some of my opponents think I don't know what I'm doing or that I'm a blundering novice when I play a3, and they proceed without caution and underestimate what's going on. I also get quite a few players that abort when they see a3 for those same reasons. I just keep seeking matches until someone does want to take it on.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #20

    gyrados_2002

    Uh, i'll just go with the colle guys. Don't get into a fight. Please.


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