1.d4 2...Yawn

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15th May 2009, 06:24am
#21
by AnthonyCG
Washington DC United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 2800
I like the Blumenfeld Gambit. It's like the Benko but not as sound.
15th May 2009, 06:25am
#22
by RussG
Hastings England
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 204

I almost always play 1.d4 as White and the response from Black that I fear the most is KID.  I have the least amount of success against it.  On many occasions my opponents have launched devastating King's side attacks against me and I have been crushed.

15th May 2009, 06:39am
#23
by ericmittens
London, ON Canada
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 1873

Now now calm down, in time he will join the ranks of the d4 players. They all do eventually. Laughing

15th May 2009, 06:42am
#24
by manymercsmike
Scotland United Kingdom
Member Since: Apr 2009
Member Points: 576

Budapest always gets my vote.  If you want an open game, where the opponent might not know the lines, this is the one.  Be aware it is a real gambit - black focuses more on piece activity than a mere pawn!

15th May 2009, 06:49am
#25
by duls_s
Bombay India
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 1505

If you want some original play , try 1 ..d6 , it is flexible setup and may transpose into various different systems , depending upon white response

15th May 2009, 06:58am
#26
by NM Reb
Lisbon Portugal
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 4117

I play both 1 e4 and 1 d4 ..... I like 1 e4 better but do better with 1 d4 !?  WTF ?? The really sad thing about this is I didnt even know this about my own chess until GM Kevin Spraggett brought it to my attention some years ago !  I do get fed up with so many sicilians though and 1 d4 gives more variety in black responses for sure.....

15th May 2009, 07:27am
#27
by SukerPuncher333
Canada
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 578
Gonnosuke wrote:

The Noteboom is one of the few responses to 1.d4 that allows black to fight for the full point from the outset. Experienced queen's pawn players will usually avoid it but the less experienced will walk straight into the meat grinder. It's sharp, complex and hugs the line between respectable and insane which means that it's also very, very fun to play.

I don't know if you're familiar with the Benko Gambit but for those that are I'll just say this -- if you think the a/b files give black good attacking chances queenside, just wait until you play the Noteboom where the a/b files turn into what can only be described as Hell's Highway! You'll never look at the a7 and b7 pawns the same again....I'm gettin' misty just thinkin' about it.


1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 c6 4 Nf3 dxc4!?


I strongly agree. I've never heard anyone opine that the Noteboom is bad.

In fact, I've tested over a dozen Rybka-vs-Rybka (version 3) games at classical time control, starting each game in the Noteboom formation. The result? Black's score is overwhelming: 4 wins, 1 loss, and the rest drawn -- something like 55-60%! While these stats are only from a small pool of games, I think we can say that Black is at least equal. This is as close as you can get to a dream opening for Black.

Also, there's the added bonus that when you are facing weaker players who don't know the Noteboom, they think you are a patzer trying to gain a pawn, and often times they simply drop that pawn or mess themselves up trying to regain it the wrong way.

15th May 2009, 04:43pm
#28
by Gonnosuke
Southern California Germany
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 2583
SukerPuncher333 wrote:
Gonnosuke wrote:

The Noteboom is one of the few responses to 1.d4 that allows black to fight for the full point from the outset. Experienced queen's pawn players will usually avoid it but the less experienced will walk straight into the meat grinder. It's sharp, complex and hugs the line between respectable and insane which means that it's also very, very fun to play.

I don't know if you're familiar with the Benko Gambit but for those that are I'll just say this -- if you think the a/b files give black good attacking chances queenside, just wait until you play the Noteboom where the a/b files turn into what can only be described as Hell's Highway! You'll never look at the a7 and b7 pawns the same again....I'm gettin' misty just thinkin' about it.


1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 c6 4 Nf3 dxc4!?


I strongly agree. I've never heard anyone opine that the Noteboom is bad.

In fact, I've tested over a dozen Rybka-vs-Rybka (version 3) games at classical time control, starting each game in the Noteboom formation. The result? Black's score is overwhelming: 4 wins, 1 loss, and the rest drawn -- something like 55-60%! While these stats are only from a small pool of games, I think we can say that Black is at least equal. This is as close as you can get to a dream opening for Black.

Also, there's the added bonus that when you are facing weaker players who don't know the Noteboom, they think you are a patzer trying to gain a pawn, and often times they simply drop that pawn or mess themselves up trying to regain it the wrong way.


Personally, I feel that the Noteboom is one of the easiest ways to achieve equality against 1.d4 so I'm not the least bit surprised by the results of your testing.  Some of the most comfortable/lopsided games I've ever played against 1.d4 have been Noteboom games....

15th May 2009, 04:49pm
#29
by santiR
outside Washington D.C. United States
Member Since: Apr 2008
Member Points: 1028

i always play the benko gambit, which is both sound and gambity.  i can't believe you think that queen's pawn is boring: you've gotten 10 different opening choices!

15th May 2009, 08:33pm
#30
by SukerPuncher333
Canada
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 578
Feldmm1 wrote:

 But trying to get a noteboom allow the marshall gambit, which scores badly for black.


If you don't like facing the Marshall gambit, you could simply go for the Noteboom only when White plays Nf3 before Nc3. The Slav usually encourages white to play this move order (as opposed to the Orthodox). The Noteboom isn't something you can force, but it is an opportunity to seize whenever White becomes silly enough to walk into it.

15th May 2009, 08:39pm
#31
by AnthonyCG
Washington DC United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 2800
I always play Nc3 before Nf3 but I rarely ever get to use the Marshall gambit. After 1.d4 d5 2.d4 e6 3.Nf6 I play the QG exchange so either they play my Slav or stay in QG territory. I never play the exchange Slav so after 2...c6 is the only time I play the Slav but who plays 2...c6 unless they want a boring game?
15th May 2009, 08:47pm
#32
by dc1985
Alabama United States
Member Since: Apr 2008
Member Points: 734

The Grunfeld is a personal favorite, but, if you want a Gambit, may I suggest...

The Albin Counter-Gambit!

15th May 2009, 08:52pm
#33
by dsachs
ottawa Canada
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 267
hic2482w wrote:

 But if you play the King's Indian practically all the time (like I do) don't you start to get bored of it?


No, you start to get really really good at it!

15th May 2009, 09:01pm
#34
by NM ozzie_c_cobblepot
United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 3812
Gonnosuke wrote:
SukerPuncher333 wrote:
Gonnosuke wrote:

The Noteboom is one of the few responses to 1.d4 that allows black to fight for the full point from the outset. Experienced queen's pawn players will usually avoid it but the less experienced will walk straight into the meat grinder. It's sharp, complex and hugs the line between respectable and insane which means that it's also very, very fun to play.

I don't know if you're familiar with the Benko Gambit but for those that are I'll just say this -- if you think the a/b files give black good attacking chances queenside, just wait until you play the Noteboom where the a/b files turn into what can only be described as Hell's Highway! You'll never look at the a7 and b7 pawns the same again....I'm gettin' misty just thinkin' about it.


1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 c6 4 Nf3 dxc4!?


I strongly agree. I've never heard anyone opine that the Noteboom is bad.

In fact, I've tested over a dozen Rybka-vs-Rybka (version 3) games at classical time control, starting each game in the Noteboom formation. The result? Black's score is overwhelming: 4 wins, 1 loss, and the rest drawn -- something like 55-60%! While these stats are only from a small pool of games, I think we can say that Black is at least equal. This is as close as you can get to a dream opening for Black.

Also, there's the added bonus that when you are facing weaker players who don't know the Noteboom, they think you are a patzer trying to gain a pawn, and often times they simply drop that pawn or mess themselves up trying to regain it the wrong way.


Personally, I feel that the Noteboom is one of the easiest ways to achieve equality against 1.d4 so I'm not the least bit surprised by the results of your testing.  Some of the most comfortable/lopsided games I've ever played against 1.d4 have been Noteboom games....


OK, before you get all excited about this Noteboom thingy, you should probably realize that this is why after those opening moves white often plays e3 instead of Nf3. This is what I do.

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c6 4.e3

All I'm saying is that you should "prepare" something other than the Noteboom, and for what it's worth I wouldn't make it the Stonewall Dutch.

Maybe the Noteboom or the Semi-Slav? It's as close as I can think of to having multiple personalities.

You know, just as an aside, when I was first learning, I treated the Noteboom as basically that white blundered a pawn. I realize that's not exactly true, but if they don't know what they're doing, they've probably blundered the whole game on move 4!

15th May 2009, 09:25pm
#35
by sarkinaiki
Everett, Ontario Canada
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 132

f4 - Dutch Defence. It's never boring.

15th May 2009, 09:40pm
#36
by Gonnosuke
Southern California Germany
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 2583
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:

OK, before you get all excited about this Noteboom thingy, you should probably realize that this is why after those opening moves white often plays e3 instead of Nf3. This is what I do.

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c6 4.e3

All I'm saying is that you should "prepare" something other than the Noteboom, and for what it's worth I wouldn't make it the Stonewall Dutch.

Maybe the Noteboom or the Semi-Slav? It's as close as I can think of to having multiple personalities.

You know, just as an aside, when I was first learning, I treated the Noteboom as basically that white blundered a pawn. I realize that's not exactly true, but if they don't know what they're doing, they've probably blundered the whole game on move 4!


True.  Strong opponents rarely allow the Noteboom which is probably one of the reasons it's not that well known despite it's effectiveness.  At the club level where players have a less precise understanding of move orders I suspect the Noteboom could be played with regularity.

The opening fashionistas don't know what they're missing....

15th May 2009, 09:41pm
#37
by BirdBrain
KY United States
Member Since: Apr 2008
Member Points: 1806

There are obviously many options, but here is one thing you can bank on...

1. d4 f5, the Dutch, sets the tone for the rest of the game, with an imbalanced position from the get-go.  Even with White's gambits (which give you the spicy pla you want), White still has to be careful to make sure that his initiative doesn't go bust.

If he doesn't play a gambit, you have several options at your disposal.  The Leningrad Dutch is an exciting, ambitious approach to 1. d4 f5. 

You can be guaranteed often of having a tense game, not a yawning battle.  I often study other openings, but I always come back to 1. f4 and 1...f5.  As I read in a quote earlier today, "a chessplayer can use the Dutch as their primary weapon against 1. d4 for a lifetime".  It is that complex...plenty of opportunity for adventure, plus the early kingside attacks with ...f4!

15th May 2009, 10:55pm
#38
by eaglex
Seoul South Korea
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 291

semi-slav

15th May 2009, 11:21pm
#39
by brandonQDSH
Honolulu, HI United States
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 996

There are a lot of gambits that Black can choose from when facing off against 1. d4. You can take some time to learn the Benoni, Modern Benoni, or even Budapest Counter Gambit, among others. But if you want a simple and sharp line, just try the easiest gambit you can think of . . . 1. d4 e5!!

Trust me, it's no patzer move! I've used it on occasion, and unless your opponent is very skilled, you get a lot of game from having open lines for your Queen and both Bishops.

16th May 2009, 08:27pm
#40
by hondoham
North Carolina USA and Honduras
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 579

i want to learn the dutch defence just to screw with people

1.d4  f5Tongue out


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