Wow, the Barnes without 1...f6!  You are truly a talented player!  ;-)

Another theme of this style of play (...f6) is taking control of e5 and g5 from the Nf3.  I had a pretty quick game with it earlier against 1. e4.  As a matter of fact, I had some really interesting games earlier, even using it as a universal system, but here is the game I had earlier.

I am not saying this is the best game out there.  But I had a reasonable way to open the position.  Just more ideas.  

The only problem is that Black is down a pawn, but he has a nice setup.  I think it boils down to taste.  This is the type of position I was discussing earlier with 2...e5.  

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And where's the problem?

I would happily give up a pawn to gain a good setup!

Bobby Fischer used 1...f6 as a response to 1 e4, if you believe the stories about how he played on ICC as an anonymous guest, and apparently smacked Nigel Short with it.

Pauix, to me, that isn't a problem.  It just isn't to everyone's taste.  I think it looked great - fit right in with my discussion of 2...e5.  

Bigdoug, wouldn't surprise me! :-)  Many high players have flirted with f3 and f6 systems with the idea of sacking the pawn for initiative. 

 gongpopo-> lmfao.

gong, was this your latest try with 1...f6?  2...g5 is awfully brave, too bad your opponent didn't know about 3. Qh5!  

My opponent probably did, but he/she didn't want to do it. Ironically in the position, even though black's king can't move, white doesn't have a mate in 1

What do you mean?

Chessnia, I will take more time later to look at all those notes.  I began to look through them - they are very extensive, beautiful, and full of passion.  I believe Chigorin did that sac knowingly - an open h-file, of all files, and pieces aimed right at the White king.  That seems like "sucking" White in for the kill, to me. :-)

My theory is that those who criticize these ideas are the same ones that criticize the Dutch, but would have praised it in Botvinnik's days.  They are iffy about the KID (one day it is in fashion, the next not) - if they are told that Bran Flakes are better than Corn Flakes, they eat those!  People follow what is hot in theory all day long!  I understand that, but I like to try to understand what is going on in the positions, that is all.  1...f6 is not as bad as it is made out to be, and it is White's responsibility to prove it is bad.  They will turn around and play a double-edged Sicilian line that you have to have a memory a mile long to play.  Not for me :-)

Let's take the Bird, which is definitely not in fashion right now!  There was a time when a lot of big names were trying it.  I think it boils down to the flavor of the moment - what are the big guns trying?  Before Kramnik came on the scene, I don't think the Catalan was as popular as it is now...but there you go!  

I guess the ultimate point is, I thank God for all the harsh criticism received.  There will be players like me and Chessnia and gambitlover who will play different styles to provoke our opponents to play out of their box, and there you go :-)

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1266586

Paul morphy has lost vs this so there may be some merrit to it, although it does look weak in my opinion

Frank, anything is weak if it is played "incorrectly" - even the ...e5 and ...c5 systems, you must know how to use them.  Look at the "brilliant" idea that Barnes did against Morphy.  

First, 1. e4 f6 - well, typical Fried Liver Ng5 is out of the question.  2...e6?  Well, Bc4 is a bit less active.

Second, which I really notice throughout the whole game - Barnes strips the game down to its bare nuts and bolts - a bare endgame, where the tactics cannot fly.  Morphy's strength was his tactics, and Barnes slowly pushed a wall of pawns in Dutch-KID fashion, and encouraged piece trades.  

I think it is important to study the ideas.  I am not by any means saying this is the best defense.  But I think it is important to understand its strengths and weaknesses, so that you don't fall prey to this "terrible" opening yourself. 

Here is my point - I play tons of 1. f4 and ...f5.  That being said, I understand the strengths and weaknesses of 1. f4 and 1...f5 than someone who doesn't spend time with it.  So I continually apply pressure to the "weakened" area and try to get a concession out of my opponent.  

The same goes here - Barnes threw a monkeywrench at Morphy he wasn't ready for!

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 I think the King's looking a little vulnerable at this point, lol. However, there are a handful of openings which an early ...f6 can be useful, e.g. 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nc6!? 4.e5 f6 is an offbeat line of the French which, as far as I know is yet to be refuted...

Regarding the game Shiffers vs Chigorin, it should be said that it was the last game in a match that Chigorin had already won.

There is also a thematic tournament going on now with the starting position after 1. e4, f6; 2. Nf3 Nh6; 3. d4 Ne7. Black is not doing so well in that tournament.

Krazy Kat.  That is a tricky opening, and it is not for everyone.  BUt I think you meant 3...Nf7.  

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Yes.