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2.Bg5 in Queen's Pawn Game


  • 23 months ago · Quote · #1

    E_Shieen

    What do you think? In our local chess club near Tokyo, I most of the times play 1.d4. And then 2.Bg5 if 1...d5 or 1...Nf6.

    Is it good? I have just started playing here on chess.com and I will try to explore some of these lines, but I still wondering. Wha's your opinion? 

    I like it because black often opens on king side. Otherwise I play kind of Grunfeld or London.

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #2

    Irontiger

    I had to face it other the board in a tournament after 1...Nf6. My opponent did not get much out of the opening (but I played better than him too), so I don't think the line is really great. This being said, it does not risk much either.

    However, the idea behind this move is not to weaken the kingside (because 1-it is not a huge weakness after it and 2- Black has not chosen to castle kingside yet) but to fight for the e4 square by pressuring its defender (the f6 knight). Still, this plan does not work well.

    The problem is that the knight on f6 is not pinned before Black moves the e pawn, thus it allows ...Ne5 that practically gives Black a tempo or trades the knight. For example :



     

    or 

     



  • 23 months ago · Quote · #3

    waffllemaster

    I'm not sure what it's all about, so I just play 2...Nf6 to give them the Tromposki. Or if I'm feeling cheeky I'll go 2...h6 with 3...g5 4...Bg7 but I guess I've only seen this in blitz.

     

    Seems the test is 2...c6 with Qb6.  This game the lower rated player achieves a nice position but loses in the endgame.



  • 23 months ago · Quote · #4

    Estragon

    Yes, that looks fully comfortable for Black.  So is just 2 ...Nf6 which transposes into a very solid line against the Trompowsky.

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #5

    Fear_ItseIf

    the trompowsky (1.d4 nf6 2.bg5) is a very good opening and I play it regularly. However I would not recommend the Levitsky (1.d4 d5 2.bg5), black gets a very easy game and possibly even an advantage with moves such as 2..h6 and 3..c5.

    If 1..d5 i may recommend you either play queens gambit mainlines, in which you only really have the declined and accepted to worry about, or if you want to avoid theory you can play the London.

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #6

    Fear_ItseIf

    Irontiger wrote:

    I had to face it other the board in a tournament after 1...Nf6. My opponent did not get much out of the opening (but I played better than him too), so I don't think the line is really great. This being said, it does not risk much either.

    However, the idea behind this move is not to weaken the kingside (because 1-it is not a huge weakness after it and 2- Black has not chosen to castle kingside yet) but to fight for the e4 square by pressuring its defender (the f6 knight). Still, this plan does not work well.

    The problem is that the knight on f6 is not pinned before Black moves the e pawn, thus it allows ...Ne5 that practically gives Black a tempo or trades the knight. For example :

     



     

    or 

     

     



    In the first example you tranpose into a mainline, usually 1.d4 nf6 2.bg5 ne4 3.bf4, this gives black a decent game, but not an advantage as you make it sound.

    Bf4 would be played rather than Bh4, if you still follow with g5 Be4 gives black an uncomfortable choice of ruining his kside or moving his rook and losing castling rights.

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #7

    9thEagle

    What is the purpose of 2. Bg5? If you can identify it, then you can decide if it's good or not.

    I like to play 2.Nc3 first, and then 3.Bg5. This helps prevent any knight shenanigans.

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #8

    MichaelPorcelli

    here is the first 10 moves of a game I played against it a few months ago

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #9

    Fear_ItseIf

    9thEagle wrote:

    What is the purpose of 2. Bg5? If you can identify it, then you can decide if it's good or not.

    Primarily to wreck blacks pawn structure, then place pawns on e3 and c3 light squares to restrcit blacks LSB, and hope that his knights will prove more nimble.

    Its more complicated than that, but it really depends on what black does to the purpose of the bishop.

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #10

    Bill_C

    This almost seems like a Trompowsky opening except that Black did not play Nf6 prior.

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #11

    Irontiger

    Fear_ItseIf wrote:

    In the first example you tranpose into a mainline, usually 1.d4 nf6 2.bg5 ne4 3.bf4, this gives black a decent game, but not an advantage as you make it sound.

    Bf4 would be played rather than Bh4, if you still follow with g5 Be4 gives black an uncomfortable choice of ruining his kside or moving his rook and losing castling rights.

    Well, as Black I am happy to get a "decent game" (actually, maybe an equal game) as soon as move 2.

    And ...g5 is only playable in view of the exchange of the bishop, of course. Black should not agree to play ...f6 if it does not win a piece.

     

    Don't get me wrong. Unlike other things, this is fully playable, and is positionally interesting. It's just that it does not give White much, and I showed specific lines for the OP to see what I mean.

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #12

    E_Shieen

    I think Nakamura played 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 in WCC in 2011.

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #13

    Fear_ItseIf

    yeah, but Nakamura playing openings is barely a testament to strength, he did play the patzer attack after all (1.e4 e5 2.qh5)

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #14

    FirebrandX

    FYI, it's called the Hodgson Attack, named after GM Julian Hodgson. Black can do the usual deflection to get the bishop on h4, and then work on queenside weaknesses with c5 and Qb6 ideas.

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #15

    yureesystem

    Shieen, if you are just starting out, it is best to play 1.e4. Open games teach you about quick development of your pieces and many tactical possibilities too. 1.d4 Nf6;2.Bg5 is more positional and require more of feel of sudden pawn structure chances.

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #16

    Fear_ItseIf

    It has many names including, Levitsky, Psuedo Trompowsky, Queens bishop attack and apparently Hodgson attack, first time ive actually heard it called that, though it doesnt suprise me.

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #17

    ajian

    I like to do this line

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #18

    FirebrandX

    Fear_ItseIf wrote:

    It has many names including, Levitsky, Psuedo Trompowsky, Queens bishop attack and apparently Hodgson attack, first time ive actually heard it called that, though it doesnt suprise me.

    All of which is detailed in the wikipedia entry:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hodgson_Attack


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