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A New Variation of the Scotch?


  • 24 months ago · Quote · #1

    sloughterchess

    This game was played against Fritz 10 at 75'99. The main alternative to move four for White is: 4.dxe5 fxe5 5.Bc4 Qe7 6.Ng5 Nd8 7.O-O Nf6 8.Nc3 c6 9.Qd3 d6 +/=

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #2

    Tricklev

    This definately refutes the Scotch, after all, you did manage to push every pawn atleast one square.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #3

    AnthonyCG

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #4

    paulgottlieb

    I'm not sure I understand this post. Are you suggesting 3...f6 as a viable defense to the Scotch? If so, I don't think you've made your case. In the game you give, Black was never withing spitting distance of equality from move 4 onward, although I believe White's play could have been improved at several points.

    At move 4, 4.d5 and 4.Nc3 both seem like fine alternatives which would guarantee a small clear advantage to to White.

    Just offhand, 22.dxe5 looks quite strong for White (22...dxe5 or 22...fxe5 then 23.Rfd1)

    30.Bxa6 or 31.Bxa6 would be improvements on White's already excellent game.

    34.Bxf7 Nxf7 35.Ne6+ is stronger

    Remember, with heavy pieces on the board, bishops of opposite color are not always drawish. In fact, they can strongly favor the attacker, because he can attack squares that the defender's bishop can't cover. Also, Black's Bishop on b7 is just about as bad as a Bishop can be.

    Playing 3...f6 against the Scotch seems to be volunteering for prolonged suffering. I don't see the positive side.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #5

    BigTy

    AnthonyCG wrote:

     


    Lol that is pretty much what I did as soon as I saw black play 3...f6?.

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #6

    sloughterchess

        The general consensus is that f6 is a bad idea. Tell that to Fritz 10; it recommends 5...f6 in this position. While White has a slight plus as is true of most sound White openings, the middlegame is extraordinarily complicated with good opportunities to go wrong. The fact that a 2750 computer can navigate complex middlegames is no surprise. Many players of the Rat, Pirc or Hippo when they suffer from a spatial deficit will get ground down by Fritz every time. Here, at least, Black can play actively, which at the practical level of almost any player, is certainly a reasonable goal for the second

     player.

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #7

    BigTy

    Lol seriously Qe7 followed by Nd8 and f6 is just stupid. First of all you are blocking in your king's bishop for no reason, second of all you are undeveloping a piece to the back rank, and third of all the king's knight's best square is taken away by a pawn. Black's best move is 3...exd4 followed by either 4...Nf6 or 4...Bc5 if white recaptures. This will always be the best move. I have fritz 10 BTW and I would not trust it's evaluations of opening positions at all. For example, after 1.e4 c5 it already gives white as clearly better.

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #8

    paulgottlieb

    Well, this line doesn't lose for Black, I'll grant you that much. And maybe if you're really fond of endlessly maneuvering in a cramped position while waiting for your opponent to make a blunder, this is the opening for you. But White gets a solid plus against this line more easily than in a mainline Scotch. But to the game!

    I'm no expert on these positions, but 5.Bc4 looks a bid odd to me. In the good old days, Dr. Tarrasch would play 5.Bd3, which discourages f5, overprotects e4, and leaves c4 free for a possible c4.  Something to think about

    9.f4 is a possibility. Since White is castled, ahead in development (slighly) and somewhat more centralized, opening up the position seems like a reasonable try. Bb5+ does seem a little pointless, although White maintains a small, definite advantage. In the game, 10.dxc6 bxc6 11.Nd5 is interesting, but probably not best (11...Qb7!)

    15.a4 or 15.Rae1 seem a little better than the game continuation. White continues to enjoy a nice edge, while Black searches for counterplay.

    Rybka, running on my laptop--not a super computer, likes 18.Bb3 and evaluates the position as +0.77, a nice edge, and better than White gets after move 18 in most mainline openings. Still, Black is not lost. As the game went, 19.d6!? is an interesting try. In the game, I think 19...b6 was Black's best hope

    24.dxc6 is not so much a concession as a trade of one set of advantages for another, and I think it's a good trade for White. After 26.Bf2, White has more space, the better pawn structure, and more active pieces. This is starting to add up to a significant advantage.

    I think you've proven that 3...Qe7 is playable--barely! But I don't think you've made many converts. If White plays accurately, Black has a long, arduous road to equality--if he gets there at all. A certain type of player, who enjoys torturous maneauvering in a cramped position, might like to give this line a try, but I don't think you'll see it played at Linares in the near future.

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #9

    AnthonyCG

    So it's not a coincidence that every novelty the op creates happens to be a closed position and it's tested against computers which aren't that good in closed positions.

    Well call me paranoid...

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #10

    sloughterchess

         My idea is to create novelties that require considerable thought by both sides. Black could easily work out the complications in analysis prior to the game and meet any deviation as a probable mistake by White. As the game showed, would you like to meet this over-the-board with the clock ticking when you have to start thinking by move 4 particularly with fast time limits? The idea is to force blunders in time pressure later. Clearly the simple 3.d5 gives White a nice spatial edge, but like many White centers Black chips away with c6.

         If you don't like maneuvering in a cramped position, I suggest you broaden your repertoire; you conveniently overlook the patient maneuvering that Fritz did instead of rushing the attack. It implicity suggests that players who "rush" to attack may actually squander their spatial edge e.g. prematurely capturing on c6, certainly a candidate move for those who like to "attack". Fritz spent as much time maneuvering as Black did. Why is the meaure of the soundness of an opening that it doesn't require maneuvering?

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #11

    RainbowRising


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