15739 Players currently online!
Man vs. Machine - good luck!
Turn-based games at any time!
Vote for the best move to win!
Do you have what it takes?
Sharpen your tactical vision!
Get advice and game insights!
Learn from top players & pros!
View millions of master games!
Your virtual chess coach!
Perfect your opening moves!
Test your skills vs. computer!
Find the right private coach!
Can you solve it each day?
Bring it all together!
Beginners, start here!
Make friends & play team games!
News from the world of chess!
Search all Chess.com members!
Find local clubs & events!
Who's the best of your friends?
Read what members are saying!
the level of chess i play at is, admittedly comparably novice, but even so i find playing the fried liver as white to be ridiculously easy. i am always able to gain back the material at least. is there a truly accurate defence/refutation that black can employ to make the fried liver not suicidal for him or is it essentially a death trap?
There is probably an accurate defense, but note that among amateurs (non-masters) the Fried Liver scores very well for White. It is difficult to defend in any case which is why most higher-level players play 5...Na5 (The Two Knights Main Line) and not 5...Nxd5?! which is considered questionable since White can then initiate the Fried Liver
Well the only version of the fried liver ive really studied is the lolli attack, transposed from the perreux variation of the 2 knights. I can say quite confidently that in the lolli attack blacks ends up in a very miserable situation no matter what he does...he might not get checkmated out of the opening if he defends with engine-like accuracy, but if white plays correctly black certainly cant equalize.
I can show you the accurate defense in a game if you wish. It has to be unrated though because it is a nasty position to defend.
The Fried Liver Attack, also called the Fegatello Attack (named for an Italian idiom meaning "dead as a piece of liver")
Wrong, that is a misconception.
The first diagram is the Polerio Defense, main line of the Two Knights defense.
The second diagram is the other alternative in the 4.Ng5 variation of the Two Knights Defense known as the Traxler Counterattack.
The Fried Liver Attack results from this series of moves.
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Nxf7
actually I think technically 5...Nxd5 is the fried liver...Nxf7 is a themantic move for white but im not sure that its best played immediately...6. d4 ed (what else?) 7. 0-0 i can tell you is a very powerful advantge for white, i doubt that even a strong computer could defend this against a decent human familiar with this line.
Nxd5 is not the Fried Liver, the opening is only initiated following Nxf7. Other moves by white result in different variations of the Two Knights Defence- but not the Fried Liver Attack.
You are all missing the point, guy asked how to defend against fried liver, after 5...Nxd5? 6.Nxf7 Kxf7 7.Qf3+ there is no defence for 1200 player who is playing black.
Fiveofswords, yes, that is probably a better way to get into the Lolli Attack (i.e. the Perreux Variation) because trying to follow from 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Nxd5 6. d4, black now has 6... Bb4+ which is a much more adequate defence.
i dont know, after 6. Nxf7 its not necessarily that easy for white to break through actually if black does some fairly simple stuff...
IMO the book moves in the Fried Liver for the first half a dozen moves or so after the knight sac are pretty intuitive - for me at least, when I first took a look at it I only spent a short time to figure what I would play in those moves, and found that it matched the book lines perfectly. But I'd agree that it's probably very hard for Black to defend the resulting position after the book moves OTB unless they're a strong player. Objectively though, I think the sacrifice seems unsound...in a correspondence chess game I'm pretty sure Black can defend.
Though as previously mentioned, Black should never have played 5. ...Nxd5?! in the first place...perhaps one reason why White scores well with the Fried Liver is perhaps because 5. ...Nxd5 tends to only be played by weaker players anyway.
On another random note, why are so many people going off on completely random tangents that aren't the Fried Liver Attack at all?
well I dont know why stremptomicin mentioned those lines, but I didnt really know if the 'fried liver' per se had to start at 6. nxf7 or 5...Nxd5. Ill jsut trust what other people have to say about it. I do know that the idea 6. d4 was inspired as an improvement to the 6. Nxf7 line which seemed to almost work but not quite...so those are very closely related, both themantically and historically
I have played the Italian game as White for a long time.And so I have entered the world of the Fried Liver many times.My experience has shown me that White's attack is too strong.He should always win.And thus Black's ...Nxd5 is an error.
Most Black players that fall into the Fried Liver do so unwittingly.They aren't there because they like the lines and enjoy defending such positions.They aren't there intentionally at all.They simply played "normal" looking moves (...Nxd5) and ended up in this mess.Consequently, they are not familiar with the best possible continuations after White's Nxf7!
FiveofSwords: the example you chose (one of the lines) is one of the most accurate defences for Black.But even in that position, White's game is looking very strong.- Black's King will be in danger for the rest of the game.- Black's Knight is pinned and thoroughly attacked.- His other Knight is passive and stuck to the defense of d5.- Black's Queen must continue to focus on d5 as well.All this for the cost of 1 point (piece for 2 pawns).And White has a realistic chance of winning a 3rd pawn, in which case material would be even but his attack would continue.
White will proceed with moves such as 0-0 & Bg5 & Rfe1 & Rad1.And I think it would be a lot to ask of Black to hold such a pressure-filled position.
What i miserable situation to be in when the best defence involves placing ones king towards the center of the board in a minefield of tactical snares.
To reach the conclusion OTB that 7... Ke6 has to be played to avoid loss of material is no doubt a psychological slap in the face, no matter how objectivly one might assess the situation in hindsight.
If you play 5... Nxd5 in the first place, chances are The Fried Liver is news to you.
well if you think this is bad, and i agree its a headache...the lolli attack is even worse :P
As bad as it looks, i could still imagine someone allowing it as black, since ok material is still material...and there may be some psychological profit...maybe white relaxes, fails to constantly find very challenging moves...
my analysis of the fried liver has led me to believe that black must choose Nb4 as his method of defending the d5 knight, because Ne7 commits black to a lifetime of defensive play when his king is in the centre and both bishops are blocked in. Nb4, however, allows black counterattacks, seemingly his only saving grace.
can I be an IM before i die?
by qrayons a few minutes ago
Yet Another World Championship Proposal
by niceforkinmove 3 minutes ago
2200 vs 2700
by chessmicky 4 minutes ago
Positional response to e4?
by ViktorHNielsen 6 minutes ago
Chess magazine v British chess magazine
by 2blackrooks 10 minutes ago
feedback about this game?
by Izko 10 minutes ago
Standard Time Control Club (STC Club)
by baddogno 17 minutes ago
by isaiahjhonson 19 minutes ago
what the #$%^was he playing and how did he win?
by Jaglavak 20 minutes ago
Annotation *during game* possible?
by Kinnmark 21 minutes ago
Why Join | Chess Topics |
Help & Support |
© 2013 Chess.com
• Chess - English
We are working hard to make Chess.com available in over 70 languages. Check back over the year as we develop the technology to add more, and we will try our best to notify you when your language is ready for translating!