Any Good Ideas For Black's Defense of Spanish Opening: Exchange Variation?

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8th August 2009, 02:38pm
#1
by brandonQDSH
Honolulu, HI United States
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 996

I've been reading a good amount of opening books and flipping through the Master moves in the database here, but I'm still looking for some help in generating some ideas for a good defense for Black in the Ruy Lopez (Spanish Opening): Exchange Variation. Following some of the recent tournament trends, this variation seems to be very en vogue right now. It surprises me a bit because I haven't seen this many people play the Exchange Variation since I was a little kid, where we all thought doubled pawns = death!

The mainline, I think, goes 1. e2-e4 e7-e5 2. Ng1-f3 Nb1-c6 3. Bf1-b5 a7-a6 4. Bb5xc6 d7xc6

White does gain a substantial edge in pawn structure, but Black has open lines and the Bishop pair in order to even the odds going into the endgame. How should play proceed?

I sort of prefer the Berlin Exchange: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. Bxc6 but do you have another favorite line? (D)

 

8th August 2009, 02:40pm
#2
by brandonQDSH
Honolulu, HI United States
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 996

Or I guess something I forgot to add, if you're a fan of White in this opening, how do you like to break down Black's defense? What strategies are you looking for in the game?

8th August 2009, 02:44pm
#3
by NM Reb
Lisbon Portugal
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 4042

Why did you attach Fischer's name to the diagram ?

8th August 2009, 03:12pm
#4
by Gonnosuke
Southern California Germany
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 2549

I prefer the 5...Bg4 variation as it leads to games that are more interesting and livelier.  As you can see below, black is well positioned for kingside mischief.

8th August 2009, 03:26pm
#5
by NM Reb
Lisbon Portugal
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 4042

Gonnosuke,

The line you give is very dangerous, for BOTH players and as white I prefer to avoid it ( in otb play anyway) with 9 Nc4 ...... Smile

8th August 2009, 03:50pm
#6
by Gonnosuke
Southern California Germany
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 2549
Reb wrote:

Gonnosuke,

The line you give is very dangerous, for BOTH players and as white I prefer to avoid it ( in otb play anyway) with 9 Nc4 ......


Yeah, 9.Nc4 definitely releases the tension.  From white's perspective I guess it's the natural move since it preserves the character of Exchange variation.  After 9...Bxf3 10.Qxf3 Qxf3 11.gxf3 the game is basically one long endgame (I'm exaggerating of course but only a little!) which is probably the sort of game that white was hoping to play all along.

Like the Berlin Defense, the Exchange is the type of game that black can lose without making any significant mistakes.  Theoretically they might be equal but I've been outplayed badly in both variations by players who understood them much better than me so I've learned to have a healthy respect for them.

8th August 2009, 03:58pm
#7
by NM tonydal
United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 4225

I myself have always had a tough time against the exchange (I only wish White would give his advantage back to me...).

8th August 2009, 04:24pm
#8
by brandonQDSH
Honolulu, HI United States
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 996

NM Reb

I posted Fischer's name in the diagram because, as one who plays for the love of the game, I'm just trying to share a bit of trivia with the community here: namely, that Fischer made good use of this opening in the mid-twentieth century, specifically the 1960s. Is that in bad taste?

And in regards to Gonnosuke's suggestion, do Masters play this hard-lined fishing pole-esque variation in tournament play?

And in your preference, when someone throws the Berlin Wall against you, do you respond with the Exchange, or do you try a different route? That is, do you primarily play the Exchange only when Black responds with the Morphy 3. ... a6?

8th August 2009, 04:29pm
#9
by brandonQDSH
Honolulu, HI United States
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 996

ouachita

You give some interesting choices to respond to 5. 0-0 with, namely 5. ... Qf6!? I'm surprised that 5. ... Nf6 is not listed as one of the "candidate" moves? I'm not trying to say that 5. ... Nf6 is the best move or anything, I'm just kind of surprised.

And I still think White maintains a unique edge or two proceeding into the middle game, but Black does have some nice compensation, I agree.

8th August 2009, 04:31pm
#10
by NM Reb
Lisbon Portugal
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 4042
brandonQDSH wrote:

NM Reb

I posted Fischer's name in the diagram because, as one who plays for the love of the game, I'm just trying to share a bit of trivia with the community here: namely, that Fischer made good use of this opening in the mid-twentieth century, specifically the 1960s. Is that in bad taste?

And in regards to Gonnosuke's suggestion, do Masters play this hard-lined fishing pole-esque variation in tournament play?

And in your preference, when someone throws the Berlin Wall against you, do you respond with the Exchange, or do you try a different route? That is, do you primarily play the Exchange only when Black responds with the Morphy 3. ... a6?


 Brandon,  To my knowledge Fischer only played the exchange against 3...a6. Thats why I ask about the diagram as a6 hasnt been played and I dont think Fischer ever exchanged when black played 3....Nf6. Fischer and Lasker are probably the greatest players who played the exchange variation at the highest levels.  Is here another ? Also, the only game that H Mecking won in his candidates match against V Korchnoi in 1974 was an exchange Ruy with the Brazilian genius playing a beautiful game against Viktor. In the end though experience triumphed over youth and it was Meckings only win in the match.

8th August 2009, 04:32pm
#11
by brandonQDSH
Honolulu, HI United States
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 996

Gonnosuke

Whoo you play quite the razor-sharp game! Do you have any recent games where you employed or defended against the Ruy Lopez: Exchange? I might want to take a look at a sample game or two. With some patience, I might be able to follow the ideas behind the first dozen or so moves :)

Oh and I have sort of the same question for you as I have with others who posted: in your experience, does White pretty much only play the Exchange line against 3. ... a6 or do you find that White will regularly play the exchange after 3. ... Nf6?

8th August 2009, 04:40pm
#12
by brandonQDSH
Honolulu, HI United States
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 996

NM tonydal

What are some of the key strategies for Black to look out for in his efforts to defend his position? 

8th August 2009, 04:41pm
#13
by nakafan
United States
Member Since: Jul 2009
Member Points: 13

just play boring and your fine

8th August 2009, 04:43pm
#14
by brandonQDSH
Honolulu, HI United States
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 996

NM Reb

After 3. ... Nf6 is 4. Bxc6 a good move, but not the best? In my own experience, I love it when I reach this kind of position, but I guess maybe stronger players don't try this as much.

I know 4. Bxc6 has much more appeal strategically after 3. ... a6 rather than the also Fischer-esque 4. Ba4 (which is what I like to play, so I don't have much experience as White with Bxc6). I think a lot of engines would play 4. Bxc6 because you don't lose a tempo and 3. ... a6 does look kind of pointless after the pieces are exchanged :)

8th August 2009, 05:36pm
#15
by Gonnosuke
Southern California Germany
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 2549
brandonQDSH wrote:

Oh and I have sort of the same question for you as I have with others who posted: in your experience, does White pretty much only play the Exchange line against 3. ... a6 or do you find that White will regularly play the exchange after 3. ... Nf6?


I never play the Exchange as white and I always play 3...a6 as black so exchanging after 3...Nf6 is new to me.  When I first looked at your diagram it brought to mind the Berlin Defense with 4.d3 Bc5 5.Bxc6 dxc6.  I'm just guessing, but it seems to me that 3...Nf6 4.Bxc6 would transpose into the d3 Berlin lines pretty often.

8th August 2009, 05:48pm
#16
by frank713
Kaneohe, Hawaii United States
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 637

OK this what we wanted a good "chess game" discussion!

Aloha and Mahalo for every one's input! I'm opening my dusty chess books and fire up my chess engines to see if can enlighten myself to stop playing poorly! Best wishes to all for improving each others chess game! Embarassed

8th August 2009, 05:49pm
#17
by Elubas
Buffalo United States
Member Since: Aug 2008
Member Points: 2354
brandonQDSH wrote:

NM Reb

After 3. ... Nf6 is 4. Bxc6 a good move, but not the best? In my own experience, I love it when I reach this kind of position, but I guess maybe stronger players don't try this as much.

I know 4. Bxc6 has much more appeal strategically after 3. ... a6 rather than the also Fischer-esque 4. Ba4 (which is what I like to play, so I don't have much experience as White with Bxc6). I think a lot of engines would play 4. Bxc6 because you don't lose a tempo and 3. ... a6 does look kind of pointless after the pieces are exchanged :)


The computer dislikes the exchange variation, but interestingly, thinks that after 5 0-0 bg4 h3 Bh5 is good, even though the refutation according to opening books is "7 g4!" but the computer actually thinks it's an error. And I have Fritz 10. So I don't know what to trust.

8th August 2009, 05:53pm
#18
by NM Reb
Lisbon Portugal
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 4042
ouachita wrote:
brandonQDSH wrote:

ouachita

You give some interesting choices to respond to 5. 0-0 with, namely 5. ... Qf6!? I'm surprised that 5. ... Nf6 is not listed as one of the "candidate" moves? I'm not trying to say that 5. ... Nf6 is the best move or anything, I'm just kind of surprised.

And I still think White maintains a unique edge or two proceeding into the middle game, but Black does have some nice compensation, I agree.


Brandon,

6...Nf6 ensures that white will play Nxe5 and should win easily.


 I think he meant 5 .... Qd6 , Bronstein's line

8th August 2009, 06:14pm
#19
by NM Reb
Lisbon Portugal
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 4042

Spassky almost always played 5.....f6 and this is also a very solid choice for black but Bronstein's line has always given me the most trouble when I am white.

8th August 2009, 06:17pm
#20
by NM Reb
Lisbon Portugal
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 4042

There is an IM here that I have seen play 5...Ne7!? against the exchange Ruy...... its a very interesting line but not for the timid soul .

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