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At some point, several moves in, after gambit is declined and after black has castled on the king's side, Black plays Qc2, according to best play by computer. Why? I see to get out of the way and let rooks be connected, but why C2? Why not say D2?
Anyone that plays this regularly, can you please help? If you DO play this regularly, you know the Qc2 I'm talking about.
Thanks for any help.
Qc2 eyes the h7 square, c4 and e4. It's the best place for the Q.
I'd heard rumors of someone having played it once, but I suspect it's an urban legend.
what LavaRook said.
And also, with the Queen on c2, and can double up with a rook on the c-file, attack h7 with Bd3, support the e4 square for an e4 pawn push, and can follow with ideas of Na4 and Nc5.
LavaRook and proKnight98 are right, and at c2 the Queen also leaves d2 available for a Knight if it proves prudent later. From c2, she also has the retreat square b1, staying on the diagonal looking at Black's castled position and also ready now to push the b-pawn if desired.
At d2, the Queen may become more of a target for a ...Ne4 or ...Bb4 at some point. So there is really no strong reason to put her on d2, but plenty of reasons for c2.
Man, if black was playing Qc2 against my queens gambit I would be pretty worried about my position.
Thanks all. (lol, yes, I meant White plays Qc2)
The queen on c2 as opposed to d2 has much more scope; just take a look at the position for yourself. Its placed on an open diagonal and a most likely soon to be opened c-file. The queen also keeps an eye on the break squares e4 and c4. It is a very natural development move in most cases.
Do you have a more natural queen development move in mind?
A queen on c2 may be an excellent move, or a blunder.
I am sorry, but it's meaningless to ask such things without referring to a very certain position.
No Kaluki, I didn't. It just seems things didn't work out well when I tried Qc2, but probably due to other factors and future moves. I'll try it again. Thanks.
@pfren: I think what he is asking is alright for the beginner/club level. Qc2 is a very common development move in queen pawn openings, and the OP was just inquiring in a generic sense its value over other queen developments such Qb3 or Qd2Beginners and club players think in terms of principles and rules (of thumb) rather than specifics and concrete analysis. That is why beginners are taught to "develop their pieces" rather than to "develop your pieces in this fashion in this position."@DavyWilliams: I would definitely recommend looking at the game explorer database here for the QGD openings with Qc2. That always helps me out when I'm figuring out why a move is played in certain opening set-ups.
Yes, I know it was very vague PFren. The position just comes up often and I'll probably play it more.
Thanks again Kaluki, I'll play it and explore. What's a club player? - someone below 1500 I suppose?
Actually it's anyone below 2200 x)
Still, the question cannot be ansered properly if it's so vague.
Take for example the so-called Eingorn Variation: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nf3 Be7 5.Qc2. While it's not met very frequently ATM, it does have its share of poison, and was extremely popular some 15 years ago.
Okay, there PFren, with your example, your Queen hits a4 and e4, so what? Strange, but my computer engine says a3 is better than Qc2 here. Why?
Perhaps here's another one. My move #10 should have been Qc2? http://www.chess.com/livechess/game.html?id=317010900
I don't think Qe2 (vs c2) was the problem here.
13. Qg4 may have been a bit more forcing, making Black do something he may not want to to keep his K-side intact.
@pfren: Come on, let's just assume he knows what he's talking about and not insult the topic totally. Most likely, DavyWilliams is referring to the Mainline Orthodox, following from 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Be7 5. Nf3 O-O 6. e3 c6 7. Qc2. Of course, the moves ...c6, ...Nbd7, and ...O-O are often seen in various orders, but the idea is the same.
In this case, the Queen is preparing to control the c-file once it becomes open, or at least half-open. In addition, it forces Black to create a response while waiting for the f1-Bishop to develop. Once it does, he will capture the c-pawn via dxc4. Finally, it also controls c4 and e4. If you want, you can extend the pain one move longer by playing 8. Rc1 or 8. Rd1.
In the game provided, your opening play was standard of a QGA, except for the time-wasting sequence e2-e3-e4. In general, that pawn belongs on e3, and it should stay there until all of your pieces are developed.
No, not 10.Qc2 here. White has a clear advantage by the very typical double threat 10.Qg4, which hits both g7 and the e4 knight. This motif is met so frequently in many openings- it is almost an automatic response for an experienced player. White wins at least a pawn, while maintaining a serious positional advantage.
Thanks, I'll try it next time. Before I was always timid about sticking my Queen out there (Qg4) - seemed rather early to do so.
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