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Anything better for black?


  • 5 years ago · Quote · #1

    Maradonna

    [COMMENT DELETED]
  • 5 years ago · Quote · #2

    jarkov

    a6 and d6 are alternatives, but Qc7 is fine.. just need a better followup

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #3

    jarkov

    jarkov wrote:

    a6 and d6 are alternatives, but Qc7 is fine.. just need a better followup


    swore Ive seen an improvement to that but right now Im coming up blank

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #4

    AnthonyCG

    Actually, White isn't winning. Black has 3 pieces for the queen.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #5

    chry3841

     think it's playable but personally I prefer to play a6 first then Nc6 and then Qc7 avoiding from the start that annoying Nb5

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #6

    peterke91

    i dont Qxc7 it's necesarly, it would be better Ke7 Na8 Qa8 Ba5 Qa5
    and it is intresting that Kf8 is almost checkmate because Bc5

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #7

    jarkov

    peterke91 wrote:

    i dont Qxc7 it's necesarly, it would be better Ke7 Na8 Qa8 Ba5 Qa5
    and it is intresting that Kf8 is almost checkmate because Bc5


    if Ke7 I think Bc5+ with Qd6 might work

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #8

    Maradonna

    AnthonyCG wrote:

    Actually, White isn't winning. Black has 3 pieces for the queen.


     Material is White 29 and Black 28. Black has an isolated pawn on B7 that is a weakness that could be attacked. I guess saying 'winning' is a too strong, but I do think that there is an advantage for white. I might be wrong.

    If I had to choose to play a colour I'd choose white. What colour would others choose?

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #9

    Maradonna

    jarkov wrote:
    jarkov wrote:

    a6 and d6 are alternatives, but Qc7 is fine.. just need a better followup


    swore Ive seen an improvement to that but right now Im coming up blank


    Thanks for reading and posting. If you remember the improvement I'd like to see it.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #10

    Maradonna

    chry3841 wrote:

     think it's playable but personally I prefer to play a6 first then Nc6 and then Qc7 avoiding from the start that annoying Nb5


     Yeah, looks like 5...a6 is probably the way to go. 5..Qc7 does not seem to bring anything but trouble.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #11

    chry3841

    I'd prefer white too becouse is easier to play, black must be very careful and accurate

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #12

    chry3841

    Maradonna wrote:
    chry3841 wrote:

     think it's playable but personally I prefer to play a6 first then Nc6 and then Qc7 avoiding from the start that annoying Nb5


     Yeah, looks like 5...a6 is probably the way to go. 5..Qc7 does not seem to bring anything but trouble.


     I prefer to play a6 even before Nc6 to avoid 5. Nb5 and 6.Nd6+

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #13

    AnthonyCG

    Maradonna wrote:
    AnthonyCG wrote:

    Actually, White isn't winning. Black has 3 pieces for the queen.


     Material is White 29 and Black 28. Black has an isolated pawn on B7 that is a weakness that could be attacked. I guess saying 'winning' is a too strong, but I do think that there is an advantage for white. I might be wrong.

    If I had to choose to play a colour I'd choose white. What colour would others choose?


    Yeah but it's still a scary situation for White. If those pieces start getting active the queen might not be able to do too much.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #14

    traxlerman

    Black is actually winning. Everybody knows that three pieces for a queen is preferable. (Three fighters against one bomber.) Here is another example in the kings indian.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #15

    Maradonna

    traxlerman wrote:

    Black is actually winning. Everybody knows that three pieces for a queen is preferable. (Three fighters against one bomber.) Here is another example in the kings indian.


     It seems that there is a divide between those that prefer black and those that prefer white. Perhaps it's a question of the individual's style.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #16

    Shakaali

    I believe it's bit strong statement to say that white/black is winning. Instead we have an unbalanced position where material is approximately even. Personaly I would probably rather have black. There are some games between pretty strong players played in this variation. Here is one black victory.

    5... Qc7 is very well known theoretical move that has been employed by many top players. I think the fact that current world champion Anand has used this move many times should be enough to convince us of its soundness.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #17

    Maradonna

    Shakaali, great post. It is interesting to see a variation of the game played through to completion. From the database that you looked at, was the continuation from 5..Qc7 through to move 12..Bc7 that I originally gave seen as the main continuation. In other words, is the point of Qc7 to try and get to the unbalanced position that is reached on move 12?

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #18

    Shakaali

    Maradonna wrote:

    From the database that you looked at, was the continuation from 5..Qc7 through to move 12..Bc7 that I originally gave seen as the main continuation. In other words, is the point of Qc7 to try and get to the unbalanced position that is reached on move 12?


    Nowadays white's two clearly most popular moves after 5... Qc7 are 6. Be3 and 6 Be2. But in those games that 6. Nb5 was played the line you gave appears to be the main continuation altough black has some serious alternatives in 7... Nf6 and 10... Ra5 (and white has 8. Nd4).

    By the way, 5... a6 is of course also a well known move with largely the same ideas, but there are some subtle differences. For example, 6. Nxc6!? is much more serious alternative after the latter as a6 can turn out to be a wasted move in the arising structure.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #19

    Maradonna

    Thanks, Shakaali. Yours posts have really helped.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #20

    BillyIdle

    A better move probably is 5...Bb4

    5... Qc7 is fashionable at the moment.

    After 5...Bb4 Black is not forced to capture with Bxc3, but having the queenside pawns broken up is still a worry for White.

    There is not a lot of information or praxis on this line, which may be in Black's favor.

    1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 5. Nc3 Bb4  (6. Nxc6 may be what White will play here).


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