^ Click here to remove ads! ^

are openings as we know it useless for the middle class

Jump to forum:
« Previous | 1 2 | Next » | Last Post
9th January 2008, 07:49am
#1
by teamzizzou
oxford England
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 31

im not a beginner,and i know the basics of opening,control of the board castling......blah blah blah,but i dont know any real mechanics of chess.so deciding to look at openings i had hundreads of them in front of me,but as im only a average player no one follows the standard way of playing,not because they have a new system which is going to blow this opening theory out the window,but because there playing basically in the dark(as i would be if i didnt have birds opening theory or whatever opening i was using in front of me).i really want to understand the openings but how can i progress.any tips for me,cheers 

9th January 2008, 08:12am
#2
by nardis
Rochester, MN United States
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 27

I went through exactly what you are going through, so I know how irritating it is when it seems like you're the only one in your rating class who's trying to play the openings properly.  Try to play against higher rated players whenever possible (even if it means playing some unrated games), and you'll get to practice the proper theory more often.  Also, when your oppenent throws you a curveball try to adapt what is in the book to your situation.  You'll make some mistakes, but you'll start to build your own understanding of not only how these openings work, but why.

I'd stick to just a few openings at first so as not to overwhelm yourself.

 Hope some of that is helpful.

9th January 2008, 08:12am
#3
by Ray_Brooks
Heart of Darkness England
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 1015
Fellah, my suggestion would be to spend less time posting unclear, and slightly weird threads, and more time actually playing chess. In the words of that 1970's Butoni Ravioli TV ad; "Don't talk... EAT!"
9th January 2008, 08:16am
#4
by camdawg7
Newcastle United Kingdom
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 186
I'm in the same situation except I really don't use any other openings than the Ruy Lopez because it is a safe one to use almost always.  But I don't know why I am doing the things I am doing as far as middle games go.  Maybe I need to do what nardis says and play higher rated people.
9th January 2008, 08:16am
#5
by direwolfe
Princeton, NJ United States
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 44
Blimey, you English are funny blokes!
9th January 2008, 08:17am
#6
by Fromper
Boynton Beach, FL United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 356

Your best bet starting out is to learn general opening principles and apply them all the time. Once you're good at that, you'll be able to start playing "book" openings the way grandmasters play them, and you'll know enough to improvise when your opponents don't play the book moves in response.

 

 --Fromper


9th January 2008, 08:20am
#7
by teamzizzou
oxford England
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 31
Ray_Brooks wrote: Fellah, my suggestion would be to spend less time posting unclear, and slightly weird threads, and more time actually playing chess. In the words of that 1970's Butoni Ravioli TV ad; "Don't talk... EAT!"

i dont think 14 posts in 3 months is alot mr brooks,theres nothing confusing about this thread,unless you think im making the bird defence up and if you talking about the one earlier today,no one seemed to want to talk about the point i posted only how clumily id played my last game. 

9th January 2008, 08:23am
#8
by SK-B
Brattleboro, VT United States
Member Since: Jun 2007
Member Points: 137

If you memorize openings and follow them blindly, of course you will be thrown when the other player makes unscripted moves. It is just like following directions for, say, installing radiators: Suppose there is a typo in the instructions so that they say you should do something which common sense would tell you makes not sense. If you are following the directions blindly, you might end up installing the radiators upside down, or connecting pipes in a way which does not work properly. But if you understand the reasons for each move, then you are better prepared to respond to surprises, and if the surprises come not because the other player has a better system, but because they don't know what they are doing, then their "out of script" moves will probably be to your advantage.

 

I agree with the previous comment that playing is important, but a good balance of theory and practice is probably the best way to study. Good luck.

9th January 2008, 08:43am
#9
by Ray_Brooks
Heart of Darkness England
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 1015

Yes, you are slightly confusing...in #1 you talk about Bird's Opening (1. f4) and in post #7 this has transformed to Bird's Defence (1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 Nd4). I also think 14 posts in 3 months is quite a lot. Seriously, concentrate on playing "sensible", developing moves in the opening and leave the minutiae of opening theory to those that have nothing better to do. Unless you possess eidetic memory, details of opening theory are bound to be only half remembered anyway. I have played the same four openings for over 30 years (two as white, two as black) and have never understood the fascination. Far better, as previous contributors have posted to learn the "opening principles" and endgame techniques ( these are timeless and will never go out of fashion {unlike opening theory}). I would advise that you firstly look at K & P endings and then move onto K & R endings. Whatever you do, Good luck! Smile

9th January 2008, 09:04am
#10
by teamzizzou
oxford England
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 31
Ray_Brooks wrote:

Yes, you are slightly confusing...in #1 you talk about Bird's Opening (1. f4) and in post #7 this has transformed to Bird's Defence (1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 Nd4). I also think 14 posts in 3 months is quite a lot. Seriously, concentrate on playing "sensible", developing moves in the opening and leave the minutiae of opening theory to those that have nothing better to do. Unless you possess eidetic memory, details of opening theory are bound to be only half remembered anyway. I have played the same four openings for over 30 years (two as white, two as black) and have never understood the fascination. Far better, as previous contributors have posted to learn the "opening principles" and endgame techniques ( these are timeless and will never go out of fashion {unlike opening theory}). I would advise that you firstly look at K & P endings and then move onto K & R endings. Whatever you do, Good luck!


1,i disagree with the 4 openings in 30 years.is that like yes i like vanilla and choc chip so i wont ever taste strawberry,as a high standerd tennis player i would show you all technics and let you decide what you want to play. 2,As for the birds,it could have been birds trifle(target audience) for what that represented.it was a random opening to put my point accross at the beginning.and 3 its ok to be patrinising just to say oh just play chess,i have been and im just asking for alittle advice.surely to get to the end game you have to open?

9th January 2008, 09:10am
#11
by Ray_Brooks
Heart of Darkness England
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 1015
I have given you advice... but none are so deaf as him that won't listen. I officially surrender. Bye bye.
9th January 2008, 09:11am
#12
by King_William
International
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 1009
There's this one dude (or girl I'm not sure) which I'm playing currently, he has 126 games going on this moment. Ray are you his coach? lol
9th January 2008, 09:15am
#13
by Ray_Brooks
Heart of Darkness England
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 1015
Couch or coach? Neither!
9th January 2008, 09:15am
#14
by NM Reb
Lisbon Portugal
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 1595
MAKAVELIAN wrote: forget openings, learn how to play the endgame properly. Also learn tactics and strategy. "learning openings is memorising moves, learnings tactics and strategy is chess " Josh Waitzkin.

This is terrible advice. Openings are as important as the middlegame and endings. If you get your queen trapped in the opening or hang a piece it wont matter how well you play middlegames or the endings , you will lose against any decent player. You need to know some opening theory to reach a playable middlegame. However, dont get hung up on openings so that you neglect midlegames and endings.

9th January 2008, 09:17am
#15
by teamzizzou
oxford England
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 31
Ray_Brooks wrote: I have given you advice... but none are so deaf as him that won't listen. I officially surrender. Bye bye.

ok ,i will let you go and play your 1200 and 1388 opponents.they must be challenging for 2100+.dont you think the ratings are abit off when someone gets to 2100+ when you can only beat a 1800+,still thats a different thread!

9th January 2008, 09:18am
#16
by King_William
International
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 1009
Ray_Brooks wrote: Couch or coach? Neither!

 hehe I corrected the typo.

But surely 126 simultaneous games can't be the best thing for your chess development?


9th January 2008, 09:35am
#17
by Ray_Brooks
Heart of Darkness England
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 1015
Taking nasty and personal swipes at me may prepare you for a career in politics, but will do nothing for your chess.
9th January 2008, 09:44am
#18
by teamzizzou
oxford England
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 31
Ray_Brooks wrote: Taking nasty and personal swipes at me may prepare you for a career in politics, but will do nothing for your chess.

obviously touched alittle nerve.unlike a politician ive only stated the truth.if only my chess was as good as my wit.

9th January 2008, 09:50am
#19
by TalFan
Perth Australia
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 661
I guess it depends on your taste and skill . I personally love ( what's this guy smoking ? ) learning about opening variations . The theory , winning percentages etc. Does it do me a lot of good knowing all of the variations of Ruy Lopez ( just an example btw . I really don't know that much theory on spanish game ). That's debatable . But I still think it can't do any harm . Which is why I like to study openings , and if I ever advance from 1500 my play will surely ( hopefully ) benefit by this knowledge. 
9th January 2008, 10:02am
#20
by Smartattack
Portugal
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 536

To Mr Raybrooks:

Mr Raybrooks is quite an odd "persounage", argues about the number of posts in the threads when himself contributes to the tally..says he surrenders, but comes back to the charge...and finally seems to worry more fore others chess skills than for his own.Double Personality!hall i surrender?shall i keep boring other people?shall i complain about the number of posts...no no no..i ll make some of my own...very funny guys appear here

« Previous | 1 2 | Next » | Last Post

Add your comment:

Join Chess.com for free to add your comment! Already a member? Then login now to comment.