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B x KBP move 4 - a serious opening?


  • 19 months ago · Quote · #1

    LongIslandMark

    I played a few games the other day with an opponent that did B x KBP sacrifice about 4 moves into the opening. I suppose for a chance to disrupt my development.

    When I was white I took the time (after KxB) to do a "manual" castle. As Black I didn't have the tempo for that, but happened to go on to win the game.

    Is this a serious opening gambit? I thought I had left behind the nonsense openings when I got up into the 900's at Blitz - which I know is still below average.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #2

    blueemu

    It's a seriously bad opening.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #3

    LongIslandMark

    Thanks for the confirmation - it did seem a seriously bad "gambit". I couldn't expect it working against most anyone. (I didn't say so in the original post, but I did win both games).

    Maybe it was the opponent just having a bit of fun or an experiment.

    So based on the ratings I see for the first two responders (thank you), which are much higher than mine, how much higher do I need to get before I stop seeing this junk? (it's somewhat amusing - but I don't think it's helping me get better)

    I love chess, and expecting this sort of thing getting back into it after several decades when I was playing in the 600's and 700's (Blitz rating).

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #4

    Crazychessplaya

    BxKBP is crap. But NxKBP is a totally different story, as many on the site would argue.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #5

    Bill_C

    Agreed. The Knight taking on f7 (or f2 if with the Black pieces) forces the take. Not knowing if you were White or not nor the opening chosen, I am a bit in the dark as to how this opening progressed.

    I used to get alot of games with the Fried Liver Attack and worked on the freeing maneuvers asssociated with the move of d5. I have seen some really interesting lines following that line, including some where the King ends up on e6 in the middlegame.

    I guess if you want to stop the move, you could adopt something like the French Defense as Black or a Paulsen Sicilian but yes, capturing on f7 with the Bishop is not as good as Nxf7 cam be.

    Let's say you play the Two Knights Defense and your opponent were to play 4. Bxf7+, ironically, the DB I am looking at has White winning in all 3 games listed. Same  result if 3... Bc5 is played instead 1 win and 1 draw.

    Does this mean that White has a devastating advantage with this move? I do not think so.

    Personally, I like playing the Paulsen as Black and either the Exchange Spanish or KIA as White. THat way, Bxf2 and Bxf7 are likely not going to come for Quite a bit.

    I think I need a better DB Cool

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #6

    Conzipe

    I remember there was a thread where someone argued that even QxKBP+ was a good idea. Posting a bunch of bullet games he managed to win.

    The formula:
    INSTERT ANY OPENING = Good in bullet 
    Is probably true.

    Of course all these ideas are theoretically suicide.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #7

    LongIslandMark

    I strongly and respectfuly disagree that any opening in blitz is good if that is what Conzipe meant (sorry if I got that wrong).

    My experiance is that any "normal" solid defense is good, and will win you the game, if you avoid all the opening traps the folks try to throw at you - almost all of them leave the attacker in a bad position once you fend them off.

    To my original post - maybe the opponent was just having some fun or an experiment - partly I was wondering, hoping for replies from higher rated players, when I might stop getting these nonsense openings. As I stated, I don't think they are helping me as much as playing against serious openings would.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #8

    Conzipe

    In blitz you are way less likely to be able to sacrifice your queen on move 3 for nothing and get away with it.

    However it seems you didn't notice that I was talking about Bullet, it's a world apart from Blitz.

    In particular, I'm talking about 1+0 bullet, where you can literally get away with all kinds of crap.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #9

    Oran_perrett

    i still get 1. e4 c5 2. Bc4 d6 3. Bxf7+?? opening attack which is useless. it works in bullet (as everything does)  but in blitz it is merely annoying. sure it might take a bit longer to evaluate your opponents attacking moves (not that he has any real attack, he has no development) but usually after you've manually castled, brought your knights and bishops out and got into a normal position it'll soon become clear that he has nothing but a few extra seconds on the clock. only advice i can give for this "opening" is look to trade queens (and everything else you can) quickly so your opponent will realise the error of his ways. i can think of little endgames where being a bishop down is a good idea

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #10

    Ubik42

    What is BxKBP? Is this some new notation? Seems cool! I bet it overtakes the old "1. e4" stuff.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #11

    Oran_perrett

    bishop takes king bishop pawn which is actually old notation

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #12

    InfiniteFlash

    this gambit, called the cochrane gambit is quite legitimate.


    The lines go deep, and white gets about sufficient compensation for the piece.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #13

    DrSpudnik

    The Cochrane Gambit comes out of the Petroff: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nxf7.

    The Bishop thing looks totally bogus.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #14

    InfiniteFlash

    DrSpudnik wrote:

    The Cochrane Gambit comes out of the Petroff: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nxf7.

    The Bishop thing looks totally bogus.

    From what i remember, white gets 3 pawns for the knight, and his positional compensation to justify it entirely is not clear at all. Maybe pfren can clarify this.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #15

    LongIslandMark

    I used the old notation "BxKBP" because: 1. I'm an old guy and that's what I grew up with, and 2: it's the same attack I got playing white and playing black (no notation change).

    To Conzipe: No I didn't notice you specified bullet.

    To Oran: I find all the "junk" opening annoying. And as you state, after KxB, the oppoenent had no development.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #16

    LongIslandMark

    I digress from the originla post:

    I don't enjoy winning a game on time if it's close - that's no fun (I don't mind if the outcome is obvious - win or lose). Blitz is a nice pace for a bit of fun - 20 minutes max. Very few blitz games I've played have ended on time where the outcome was in doubt (maybe just because of my level).

    To the orignai post: Anyone care to comment when I stop getting the "junk" openings - or should I just live with it?

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #17

    LongIslandMark

    Thanks Moses - I appreciate your commets. I suppose if I can't get myself rated higher (by winning games) I should expect the occasional "junk" opening (I've had fewer than when I was in the 700's). From where I am (900's Blitz) 1400 looks prety far away. Hope I get there some day!

    Cheers!

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #18

    LongIslandMark

    Thanks Moses. I suppose if I can't punish the junk openings, I'm rated where I should be!

    When get tired of Blitz, I should try some "real" games. I just thimk Blitz if fun.


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