15443 Players currently online!
Man vs. Machine - good luck!
Turn-based games at any time!
Vote for the best move to win!
Do you have what it takes?
Sharpen your tactical vision!
Get advice and game insights!
Learn from top players & pros!
View millions of master games!
Your virtual chess coach!
Perfect your opening moves!
Test your skills vs. computer!
Find the right private coach!
Can you solve it each day?
Bring it all together!
Beginners, start here!
Make friends & play team games!
News from the world of chess!
Search all Chess.com members!
Find local clubs & events!
Who's the best of your friends?
Read what members are saying!
As white, I've been playing Bird's opening quite a bit and having a good bit of luck with it.
One question I have is which way to go when black replies with 1... e5 (From's Gambit). I am wondering if I should play through it or transpose to the King's Gambit. I haven't faced it yet and haven't looked too in depth into either of them, but figure I should be prepared for when I do.
I tend to be somewhere in the middle in terms of being positional vs. tactical - any advice would be appreciated!
Personally, I would transpose it into a king's gambit, but that's just because I really like the opening. Here is some help on the king's gambit if you need it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5ImJ2row6E
I will play a game in the From if you like.
I think it just depends on what you like more.
I never cease to be amazed when players ask total strangers for advice that is basically meaningless: as in, what opening(s) or variation(s) should I play without bothering to tell anyone my rating , do I like to attack or defend, do I prefer open, semi-open or closed positions etc?
From a strictly statistical point of view KG & FG are both about the same in terms of White's winning/drawing/losing chances according to our Game Explorer here. Of course that's just looking no further than 1.e4 e5 2.f4 and 1.f4 e5.
From White's point of view, KG is better suited to attacking players and FG is probably better suited to defenders since White will be trying to hang on to an extra pawn (forever) or else settle for returning it in such a way that he/she still maintains some other advantage worth giving the pawn back for.
IMHO personal experience (with each opening) is what matters here: not what a bunch of strangers recommend - except for me of course because I'm always right and I never lie!
I played KG for almost 10 yrs til I studied MCO-14. Unsatisfied with Black's equalising defence (when played properly against any White KG) I began to try other openings. When playing 1. f4, I found From's seems to be slightly ahead for White but only if you learn the appropriate responses or else you'll end up in trouble. Put simply, I will only play 1. f4 against a weak player (<1800) in short time limits (<10 mins) or if I have a good reason (knowing their repertoire) because stronger players will generally play a better response like d5, c5, g6 etc. and take advantage of your effectively wasted tempo.
Also note that if 1. f4 e5 2. fxe += and 1. f4 e5 2. e4 exf -= with perfect play, i.e.
"The best way to refute a gambit is to accept it." - Steinitz
Well when I play an opening I look to the present day pioneers of the opening. Im sure youre familiar with Danielsen (2500ish rated player) who used to use the bird a lot. Well I got the idea to play the variation from him. I hate to use this defense, but if a 2500 level player who spends hours a day preparing his openings decides to play a certain line...it cant be all that bad;-)
Besides the 4)..Nf6 lines of the From accepted (instead of the weak ...g5) followed by an early Ng4 are terrifying, and have faaaaaarrrr too much dangerous theoretical lines to invest time into
I'm actually not familiar with Danielsen (just my reliable opening books) but with a result of 17/10/4 (link), I still consider it inferior to other opening moves at White's disposal. Although, upon a quick browsing of the games, 1. f4 might also be useful in an 'all or nothing' situation (last round of a tournament) or against a particularly weak tactical player.
As for the 4. ... Nf6 below, precise and tight play still gives White the advantage:
excerpt MCO-14 p. 697-698 (k)
Staying away from theory for a moment, you also have to think about the relative amount of work needed. The KG is interesting, but B has a dozen of possible sound defences, plus other unsound but tricky tryes. I have always had the impression that the KG is quite different from other romantic gambits (for ex. the danish family) where W compensation is simple to grasp and you can show some initiative simply with fast development;it these gambits usually you're the one attacking from the beginning. Instead in the KG you have to know what you're doing in the early moves, since W king is quite exposed. When i meet a prepared KG player it's always a battle, but against guys not knowing some theory the game is usually lost for W in a few moves. The From certainly needs less preparation.
I suggest you play the from definitly, it gives white a good plus, and dont be affraid of it. Nowdays when somebody plays from against me, usualy they get a worse postion, if you want i can provide my lines in the From... + the KG has more line to know
Thanks for all the advice so far everyone! I'll play around a bit with some of the lines shown.
Shirov - I am familiar with Danielsen and have seen some of his videos. I'll look a little deeper in on how he plays against this.
phoenix214 - I would appreciate seeing the line you use!
Conquistador - I'd love to play a game with you. Let me know how you want to arrange it.
NimzoRoy - I'm glad that I was able to amaze you with my very first post Seriously though - thanks for the quick synopsis of the two and the advice.
I feel that you should accept the gambit, basing on your preference to fianchetto your queenside bishop ie. my KGA uses queenside bishop to reclaim the f4 pawn. Personally I will play through the gambit, since I prefer to play reverse Leningrad Dutch setup when I play Bird (Nf3, g3, and Bg2) and Black e5 pawn will hinder this.
However, transposing to KG is comfortable for me too, since I wield KG nowadays.
If you want to play f4, probably have to learn to accept the gambit ,of course unless you'd rather to the kings gambit. I have heard though that the from's gambit is quite dangerous.It really is your opening preference though.
Actually, I tried a practice game that was offered and played through phoenix's suggested line. I ended up pulling off a draw... but it was indeed dangerous as you mentioned blobbly. My play was pretty much forced through the entire game!
I found a related line (1. f4 Nc3 [intending e4 on the next move] ) to be quite dangerous. Here, the transposition to the King's Gambit by White is called for, as it leads to an inferior version of the Keng's Gambit for Black.
I am always happy taking the From Gambit. As long as you know the line you can hold any black one move tricks. I played a very interesting game this week and came across a From line I had not played before. Took me some minutes to figure a way out. Here's how the first moves went:
The From gives white a free pawn, though black has at least some compensation. I never thought it was an easy game or anything. Good thing is you do not have to keep slugging, you can simply go fxe once and let it be. It gives back the pawn and it leads to a simple game.
The KG is a whole different ball game. Now white is giving the pawn, but black will give it back mostly. If black plays a solid line I simply don't think what white has is all that great.
I can't tell you what to play. I don't think the From is easy, but it doesn't make much sense to transpose into the KG for me, since it's quite a bit different.
If you're not an overly tactical player then you might want to steer clear of the From. You don't have to go into the King's Gambit either. You can simply play 1.f4 e5 2.fxe5 d6 3.Nf3 dxe5 4.e4 followed by sensible developing moves.
You can choose a KG line but then you have to study the two openings (FG and KG) and they've very different. Fritz always go with fxe so as long as you know the follow up White should be OK.
Many know the KG lines but few study FG from a black perspective, and only know the first 5 or 6 moves then "guess" what do do next. FG has a few one trick pony moves for black but can easilly be replied to. The diagram I have added a two or three posts above has a couple of sneaky moves - the 5...,d5 move and 2...,Nc3 move which is much less usual than 1...,d6. On the first one you should take the pawn on d6 otherwise you're trapping your knigh (will have nowhere to go after h6).
play the from.. take the pawn!!
Black to move - what result?
by NapoleonV a few minutes ago
12/10/2013 - Easterwood-Williams 2004
by juanpa2013 a few minutes ago
Why Russians are so good at chess.
by bigpoison a few minutes ago
does OTB rating vary geographically?
by jfiquett 4 minutes ago
by Samsch 4 minutes ago
what the #$%^was he playing and how did he win?
by Jaglavak 5 minutes ago
I'm losing for no reason.
by EDB123 6 minutes ago
HIARCS Chess explorer for game analysis
by jaakash 7 minutes ago
by EDB123 8 minutes ago
Odd Tactics Issue
by Scottrf 10 minutes ago
Why Join | Chess Topics |
Help & Support |
© 2013 Chess.com
• Chess - English
We are working hard to make Chess.com available in over 70 languages. Check back over the year as we develop the technology to add more, and we will try our best to notify you when your language is ready for translating!