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Hi guys. When playing White, I usually try to open with the Italian Game, if possible. I've face Petrov's Defense a couple of times recently and found out playing 3.Bc4 will usually transpose into the Two Knights Defense, which I am already familiar with. The only problem is 3...Nxe4 which is the Boden–Kieseritzky Gambit (4.Nc3 Nxc3 5.dxc3) which Wikipedia calls unsound and does not look appealing to me. Are there any other responses to 3.Bc4 Nxe4? is the Boden–Kieseritzky Gambit unsound? Should I just try to learn a different line? Thanks.
Well,it isnt unsound or anything,after dxc3 ur down a pawn but have a lead in development and the initiative!Overall,good attacking chances!I think after Nc3 ,Nc6 is better for Black instead of exchanging on c3 after which he will have to play f6 to defend the e5 pawn which doesent seem that good!
It's probably unsound. you could try Bc4 on move two and meeting 2...Nf6 with 3.d4 and a likely two knights. this is called urusov gambit and is much stronger.
1.e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Bc4 Nxe4 4. Nc3 Nxc3 5. dxc3 Be7 (why try to hold unto the pawn unless you prepared for it in opening prep?)6. Qd5 O-O 7. Nxe5 c6 8. Qf3 d5 9. Bd3 Nd7 looks equal to me.
Tim Harding wrote an article on the Boden-Kieseritky at chess cafe. He gave 5...Nc6 6. O-O Be7 7. Qd5 O-O 8. Nxe5 Nxe5 9. Qxe5 d6 as equal. I actually had that position from a two knights move order and it is not anything for Black to fear. I kind of wonder about White's compensation after 6. Qd5 Qe7 7. Bg5 f6 (provoking weaknesses on e6 and preventing kingside casteling)8. Be3 with some compensation for the pawn.
5...c6 planning d5 is possible but if Black wants to play for a win the line should probably involve an early Qe7, f6, g6, Qg7 idea to stop White's attack.
Ohh I figured out Harding's mistake, its a typo 4. Nc6 and white has to choose between a four knight fork line and the above refrenced line. 5. Nc6 Qd5 6. Qe7 Ng5 should win the exchange for an extra central pawn.
Back on topic, 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nxc3 4. dxc3 f6 5. Nh4 g6 6. f4 is messy and gives white compensation for a pawn. If its unsound, I have not seen a convincing refutation published. If you like the messy lines with your knight on h4 and Black's king stuck in the center and don't mind a transposition into a drawish position, keep playing this line. If not, learn something else.
5...c6 is comfortably equal, there is also 4...Nc6, and if Black wants to play for a win he can pick 5...f6 and defend for awhile.
Objectively 5...f6 is best, but requires some homework.
@aggresivesociopath. I'm having trouble with your last post. I worked out Harding's line and it looked fine to me. And how could you have 4.Nc6 and 5.Nc6 in the same line?
In the second line I think you might mean 2...Nf6 rather than 2...Nc6, no? and then you jump from 2....Nc6 to 3...Nxc3. I can't folow it.
Regardless, the lesson you have given me on these lines will prove most valuable. I'll feel a lot more confident playing these lines. Thanks
My first line was 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Bc4 Nxe4 4. Nc3 Nxc3 5. dxc3 Nc6? which allowes 6. Qd5 Qe7 7. Ng5 f6 8. Nf7 Rg8 9. Nd6+ cxd6 10. Qxg8 and white has an exchange for a center pawn, black's light squares are weak and his pieces are entombed behind his pawns. My second line was 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Bc4 Nxe4 4. Nc3 Nc6 which looks bizare at first, but 5. Nxe4 d5 transposes to 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bc4 Nxe4 5. Nxe4 d5 and is known to be harmless. Which leads me back to what I think Harding meant, 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Bc4 Nxe4 4. Nc3 Nc6 5. O-O Nxc3 6.dxc3 Be7 7. Qd5 O-O 8. Nxe5 Nxe5 9. Qxe5 d6 with equality, although the position is difficult to play for a win. I never offered an opinion on 5...c6.
And yes, I also make typographical errors.
I haven't read all of the lines above, but I play 2.Bc4 myself which can avoid the problem (answering either d3 or d4 to Nf6). Then with d3 you can head toward Italian or Vienna lines as you prefer, or d4 heads toward an Urusov Gambit and almost always transposes to the Two Knights Defense. If your opponent does not answer with 2...Nf6, then I think you are simply someplace that you are familiar with.
My first line was 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Bc4 Nxe4 4. Nc3 Nxc3 5. dxc3 Nc6? which allowes 6. Qd5 Qe7 7. Ng5 f6 8. Nf7 Rg8 9. Nd6+ cxd6 10. Qxg8 and white has an exchange for a center pawn, black's light squares are weak and his pieces are entombed behind his pawns.
That's total nonsense, sir.
5...Nc6 is a perfectly good move, which should be answered by a timely b2-b4 with ***SOME*** compensation for the pawn. Your 6.Qd5 and 7.Ng5 are genuine lemons - instead of the silly 7...f6 Black would simply play the thematical 7...Nd8, and be ready to push all white pieces back (quite an easy task).
What is wrong with 3. Nxe5?
Except that after the line given by aggressivesociopath 6. Ng5 is simply winning for white...
Quite right- Black has to start with 4...Nc6 and take on c3 when white has castled.
This is basically all the theory you need to know as black.
Here is how I demolished White via the latter just the other day -- maybe it should no longer amaze me that players of mediocre openings aren't at least prepared with the best lines so they don't go straight into losing positions.
7.Bxc6+ is premonition of defeat. 7.Nxe5 and white has still some life, although black is obviously better after Qg5 (Qd5 looks drawish).
6.Bd3 is the right move, and after 6...de4 7.Bxe4 Black should play 7...Nb4!? or 7...Ne7!? instead of the book move 7...Bd6, which looks like a minimal advantage for white.
@ Impfren and Moses: Thank you for correcting my analysis. I wish I had more to contribute, but to tell you the truth I intend to play just play 4.Nc6 and give that 7...Ne7!? line a whirl when I get the chance.
Was my chat disabled?
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4/19/2014 - Tisdall - Lee, London 1981
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which do you like better knight or bishop.what would there values be??
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Why the hate?
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ready to be challenged, play, and learn!
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