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Caro-Kann


  • 24 months ago · Quote · #1

    The_AlphaWolf

    Hello,

     

    In this setup

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I have the following moves in my database:

    9...h6

    9...Ned5

    9...Bg6

    9...Qd7

    Against every one of these moves, 10.Ng3 and 10.Nf4 seems playable. Which one do you advocate against the different moves and why?

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #2

    knightwriter2000

    I would probably play Nd5 as this opens lines for the queen and the bishop. It makes a decent outpost for the Knight as well.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #3

    InfiniteFlash

    I would definitely play h6 here, ng3 is threatened, and id like to keep my options open.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #4

    FirebrandX

    I think he's asking for white's move, not black's. As white, I'd play Ng3 against everything except Bg6, where Nf4 can snap it off at some point.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #5

    Phelon

    [COMMENT DELETED]
  • 24 months ago · Quote · #6

    Dutchday

    I don't think Ne7 is a good defender for the bishop, and it's blocking. So I would absolutely think about h6-Bh7-Ned5.

    However I can also understand people less worried about the bishop would go Bg6-Ned5 and if the bishop is lopped off at any point, hxg and maybe castling queenside as well. I'm not a real Caro-Kann player, but I personally find the attack over the halfopen h-line hilarious after people did so much work to get the bishop.

    Ng3 looks normal. It gains a tempo on Bf5, which I would lop off there. It looks at e4 and h5.

    Nf4 threatens Nh5 and it only attacks the bishop if Bg6 was already played. Maybe there is Nd3!? (No idea)

    So I guess there are a few plans. My first idea would be Ng3. 

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #7

    Estragon

    In most cases it's going to be personal taste, although Ng3 will tend to fit in with more possible ideas later - so much depends on what plans you prefer to pursue as White.

    But there is not necessarily a need to rush to trade the Bf5, nor should Black fear its exchange (although he doesn't want to be forced to recapture with the e-pawn). 

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #8

    NimzoRoy

    Next time posting an interactive diagram showing all the moves leading up to your position wouldn't hurt, nor would identifying the opening by name and ECO code. At least this is how anal retentives think (like me for instance)

    I realize you were probably looking for some reasoning here and not just a bunch of dry and possibly meaningless statistics but this is how I decide on moves in my turn-based games, by considering their popularity, winning percentage and more importantly how recently they've been played and by who. Of course my first inclination is to go with whatever move I'd probably pick OTB on my own as long as it doesn't look like a clunker after playing thru several games it was used in. In many cases I don't have a clue so I start playing thru a few or more games with whatever move strikes my fancy to make sure it still seems OK and hopefully to "get a clue" as to what the move is supposed to accomplish. Sporadically I'll look stuff up in MCO-15 if it has the line I'm playing and go thru a few columns and the FNs which is very helpful since none of my DB games are annotated.

    I looked this up in my ChessBase BIG DB 2012 (updated to 01/13, with 5.5 million games) and noticed that the 2 most played Black moves are 9...Ne7-d5 and the 9...Qd7. All winning percentages are for White BTW.

    After 9...Qd7 the DB shows

    10.Ng3   10 games  40%  LP 2008  Best Elo 2438

    10.Be3     9 games  67%  LP 2004  BE 2425

    10.Nf4     8 games   63% LP 2006  BE 2742 Best player: Morozevich

    10.a4      7 games   64%  LP 2008  BE 2625 BP: Tal, Geller

    Offhand it looks like 10.Ng3 is White's worst choice, not just based on the relatively small number of games played for all moves above but also considering the Best Players making the moves and their ratings.

    9...Ne7-d5 and now

    10.Ng3   33 games  61%  LP 2007  BE 2550  BP: Geller, Van der Wiel

    10.Nf4      1 game  50%  LP 2007  BE 2346

    10.a4        1 game  50%  LP 2005  BE 2259

    In ths line it looks like 10.Ng3 wins by a landslide. Of course I'd play thru a few games or more if possible to "get a clue" here, since this is all brand-new to me.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #9

    LoekBergman

    If black plays 9. ... Qd7 and you play 10. Ng3 Bg6, then you can expect 11. ... Nf5. Would you like that? 

    After 9. ... Bg6 I would play 10. Nf4 if I have to choose between those two moves. Not only for the possible exchange, but also because it strikes d5.

    After 9. ... Ned5 are both options valid. 10. Ng3 Bg6 11. Nce4 might be interesting for white. With 10. Nf4 I do not get a plan right away (exchanging all knights does not give a real advantage to white I guess), but somehow do I prefer that move.

    Only after 9. ... h6 would I play 10. Ng3 for sure, because what can you do after 10. Nf4 g5? Best is returning to e2 and you have given black two tempi.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #11

    FirebrandX

    pfren wrote:

    White's plan is simple (but not simplistic); He will chop everything that appears on d5, util black ends with a pawn on that square. After that white may use his safe space advantage- so, in most cases he will play Nf4, not Ng3 (swapping the bishop for a knight is no big achievement).

    Maybe in OTB, but Ng3 is preferred on ICCF.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #12

    eddysallin

    1,it's whte move... and ng3,bg6,ph4,h6,   seems worthwhile?


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