call it coal as in hot coal? i think white's g3 response could be the start of a relentless advance. but then am not good in chess... so
Just asking, but why wouldn't black go 5 ... c6? Seems a little too defensive for white.
Right. If Black played 5...c6, then the White bishop would move to c2 and still be able to defend the e4 square in preparation for e4.
Hmm Actually Colle is not that simple or passive I love the colle zukertort variation Bb2.. And just storm the K side Ne5 f4 g4 etc There are excelent works on the Colle I suggest the Polgar DVD on the Colle, I played it a few times in classic time control and I confess I was not able to make that great attacks as seen on books/dvd's, but every opening can be a great choice according to you humour
That variation seems to be quite popular.
The Colle looks pretty passive. Your own pawns end up blocking you in. What about the Stonewall Attack instead? 1.d4 Nf6 2.e3 d5 3.Bd3 c5 4.c3 e6 5.f4 intending to advance your kingside pawns if black castles on that side.
Great opening for those who want to fall asleep while playing chess.
lol
rigamagician> Your own pawns end up blocking you in.
That's not quite right. White's dark-squared bishop starts out blocked in by the e3 pawn, but it usually ends up quite active after e3-e4-e5.
In that particular line, black could have played much more aggressively 3...Bf5 4.Bd3 Bxd3 5.Qxd3 with an early ...Ne4 and ...f5. Maybe white would do better to play 2.e3 and then 3.Bd3 to prevent this. In any case, the Stonewall Attack seems to have been much more popular than the Colle back in Colle's time.
If Black plays anti-Colle (3...Bf5) lines, White plays his anti-Colle (4.c4) lines, and the warfare continues. In any event, 3...e6 is the mainline and the game illustrates how White usually gets his dark-squared bishop into the game. This supports the point I made that it starts out blocked, but it usually ends up quite active.
Agreed.
In your anti-anti-Colle, the queen's bishop stills gets blocked in.
I don't see where the advantages came in for white are. Black on the hand has a better end game ahead of it. I'll take black to win after everything is said and done.
It leads to very fast games. Think about it, 17 moves in and both sides only have two minor pieces, both of their rooks, and six pawns left. I think black has a small advantage in this opening.
rigamagician> In your anti-anti-Colle, the queen's bishop stills gets blocked in.
Note the word usually. 3...Bf5 is played in only 17% of games. White scores 54% after 4.c4, indicating that White is fine in this line as well.
[Removing example game I won in this line nine days ago.]
The QG doesn't really require much theory (except maybe 3 e4 of the QGA, but 3 Nf3 doesn't require any study) and is much sounder and simply more interesting.
Um...really?? Since when does the Queen's Gambit not require an immense amount of theory??? And the colle isn't unsound, it just tends to lead to drawish positions against accurate defense.
There is a lot of theory to it, but I have never really studied the queen's gambit and always got great positions out of it. I know the general slav positions and all of the ideas by looking at it but not just a ton of moves. I think it sounds insane to say that it does require alot of theory. Again, there is alot of it, but it's not so necessary and I would absolutely never be afraid to play the QG without going over lines. It's a quiet opening, not many tricks here. Like I said 3 e4 will require theroy as well as that gambit from the main line slav. I wouldn't be afraid to play the QG if there was someone who knew every single move out of every line of it as black.
Again, you guys are discussing the VARIATION, not the SYSTEM. This variation might favor Black, and others might favor White. I'm only using the diagram as an example; I didn't intend for it to be analyzed for advantages and disadvantages. The point of this thread is to discuss the Colle as a whole, not just one variation.
Thank you.
well those who like the colle will probably like its cousin the London system!!1.d4 2.Nf3 3. Bf4 4. e3
There is no "system", there is only a collection of variations. It makes no sense to discuss all of them at once without going into detail on any of them, there would be nothing to discuss.
Then again, you're right, this certainly isn't an opening you would play in blitz or quick games. It requires too much thinking, and is therefore boring compared to others.
lol, it requires too much thinking, and is therefore boring?
too much thinking = boring?
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