Colle System(s), KIA etc

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15th June 2009, 06:30am
#1
by Tricklev
Gothenburg Sweden
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 913

There are some white systems, KIA, Colle etc that works basicly regardless of what your opponents put out. Granted, they won't work well against everything, but they give you a base, and when your opponent put outs one an opening that rips through KIA, you can prepare for those openings separately, and through that minimise some of your opening study.

Is there any opening for black, that's as universal as the KIA and Colle (all of them, zukertort etc), but that's still reasonable sound? Now I know Colle and KIA isn't completely sound, but they aren't at the sodium opening level.

15th June 2009, 06:42am
#2
by Scarblac
Arnhem Netherlands
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 1834

As white, you have a certain opening advantage because you have the first move. One of the ways to use that is to force a very solid position no matter what black does (losing the advantage in the process).

As black, it's harder. White has the initiative, and if he wants to, he can make the game sharp against pretty much everything black does -- doubly so if black chooses the simple way out by playing the same thing against d4 and e4!

One other issue is that even though you play the same moves, there is really an essential difference between d4 & c4 by white, and d4 & e4. The Slav is not the Caro-Kann, the Pirc is not the King's Indian, and the French is not the QGD. You could choose those openings (playing e.g. 1...e6 and 2...d5 against everything), but you would still need to learn very different things depending on white's first move.

But so it goes, that is chess. 1.e4 is really not the same as 1.d4.

15th June 2009, 06:52am
#3
by NM Reb
Lisbon Portugal
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 4183
Tricklev wrote:

There are some white systems, KIA, Colle etc that works basicly regardless of what your opponents put out. Granted, they won't work well against everything, but they give you a base, and when your opponent put outs one an opening that rips through KIA, you can prepare for those openings separately, and through that minimise some of your opening study.

Is there any opening for black, that's as universal as the KIA and Colle (all of them, zukertort etc), but that's still reasonable sound? Now I know Colle and KIA isn't completely sound, but they aren't at the sodium opening level.


 I have known players that play as black 1... g6  and then 2.... Bg7  against practically everything and it works for them it seems. One is a FM here in Portugal.

15th June 2009, 03:24pm
#4
by Tricklev
Gothenburg Sweden
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 913

I've actually thought about that, The modern (robatsch) defence looks interesting, gotta look up some master games with it and look into it, seems interesting.

15th June 2009, 03:38pm
#5
by AnthonyCG
Washington DC United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 2829
The King's Indian setup works against all 1.d4 systems but you'll have to change up some things sooner or later. You probably won't get to kingside attack either.
15th June 2009, 03:43pm
#6
by BlackWaive
Michigan United States
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 400

The Pirc system works against nearly everything. It even works as White - a universal opening.

15th June 2009, 03:45pm
#7
by Tricklev
Gothenburg Sweden
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 913

Well, king side attack isn't the most important, just that they are fairly easy to learn  and memorise (I got a really lousy memory), and that they have some clear plans right away!

To be honest, when I saw that Reb had written in the thread, I thought he where going to flame me till there was nothing by a dark crisp left of me.

Edit: Oh I realise the plans are different, that's no problems, remembering plans and some changes in pawn formations is no problem at all, I like that, memorising lines is where my weakness is, my memory can't handle it. Heck, I once was with a girl for 6 months before I finally memorised her last name.

15th June 2009, 08:54pm
#8
by Zukertort
Charlottesville United States
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 113

The Black Lion, perhaps?

18th August 2009, 09:56pm
#9
by chessmaster102
Detroit MI United States
Member Since: May 2009
Member Points: 581

What is KIA.

18th August 2009, 09:59pm
#10
by rkoelbach
Bonn area Germany
Member Since: Jul 2009
Member Points: 16
chessmaster102 wrote:

What is KIA.


 The King´s Indian Attack. White plays a reversed King´s Indian setup.

18th August 2009, 10:02pm
#11
by rkoelbach
Bonn area Germany
Member Since: Jul 2009
Member Points: 16
Tricklev wrote:

There are some white systems, KIA, Colle etc that works basicly regardless of what your opponents put out. Granted, they won't work well against everything, but they give you a base, and when your opponent put outs one an opening that rips through KIA, you can prepare for those openings separately, and through that minimise some of your opening study.

Is there any opening for black, that's as universal as the KIA and Colle (all of them, zukertort etc), but that's still reasonable sound? Now I know Colle and KIA isn't completely sound, but they aren't at the sodium opening level.


 How do you define "sound"? Both the KIA and the Colle are well playable. Theory says they don´t lead to an opening advantage like some other openings. But that is highly sophisticated and not important for typical club players IMO. If you define "sound" that way - ok. But if "sound" means, that an opening gives you at least equality and a logical setup - well, then those openings are VERY sound. Esay to learn and a good startup opening repertoire.

 

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