I would think so, but would like to hear from those who have studied the English and played the Reti.

I play the KIA now and have been oscillating on whether to add the Reti for a richer repertoire for white.  I think I'm gonna do it.  I had read that the English is related to the Reti, and after looking at it can see why. 

Just from looking at the excerpts on amazon for the Starting Out: English, by McDonald, I think his move-by-move explanations of the  positions are fantastic, in the highest tradition of the Starting Out series.  So I'm tempted to buy the book anyway.  (Dynamic English, by Kosten, is probably very good too if I want to get really into the English.)

But if I intend to open with 1.Nf3 as white, and then play KIA (usually early e4) or Reti (early c4) from there, I'm wondering how much studying the English (positions resulting from 1.c4)  will help me.

Thanks for your thoughts.

In my choice of move order with the Reti, I usually only reach side-lines from the English (such as A12: "English with b3"). White tries to prevent black from playing e5 and taking the center in the Reti, while playing the English would immediately allow it.

Just talking to a few players I know who play the Reti or English, they usually only prefer one or the other. It's just a matter of personal taste, I guess.

I am not an expert on the Reti or English, but learning the English without e5 would probably help your Reti.  But e5 makes for positions that are not usual to the Reti.  It really is a matter of taste. 

Studying the Reti Certainly helps your English!

Lines where black plays 1...e6 or 1...c6 are not going to be in the realm of the english opening. But you can transpose into a Reti or a Catalan which are very similar to some lines of the english, specifically those in which white fiancetto's his king bishop.

If you play 1.Nf3, continuing with e4 will not always be possible, or at least not always best. Often c4 will be sensible, and the Reti may appear. Due to the choices of both players, the transpositional possibilities are great. If White plays c4 and d3 or e3, it looks like the English. If White plays c4 and d4 and Black plays c5, then White's d5 looks like a Benoni (or maybe Benko or Blumenfeld are coming), but not pushing to d5 remains English. If White has c4, d4, g3+Bg2 in, and Black has e6 and d5, it looks like a Catalan. Against White's c4+d4, Black's setup may lead to the King's Indian, Queen's Indian, Dutch, London System, Slav, and so forth. White has to know what to choose, but only gets half the moves. It is wise to avoid some setups, based on your preferences, but not all. For example, refusing to play d4 is not always reasonable even when trying to limit the transpositions. At least combining Nf3 with d4 before c4, avoids the Budapest.

ericmittens wrote:

Studying the Reti Certainly helps your English!

---

I think the question is: "Does studying the English help your Reti?"

 

I believe AquaMan already knows the Reti and wishes to know if his knowledge can be expanded by playing the English. Reversing the statement of 1 ... e6/c6, these apply to the Reti, but not as often in the move order of the English. Thus, I personally do not see studying the English as very helpful to the Reti (the reverse may still be true, however).

Hey AquaMan. You really post good topics. :-) You might deserve some popcorn for this one. I too, became interested in the English because I often play the Nimzo-Larsen Attack (A01)which sometimes transposes to the English with b3 (A12) as mentioned above. I bought it and It's a good book (as are all the Everyman Starting Out books) I haven't gotten very far into it yet. I have found it is a very different system from the NLA but at least my repertoire is expanding. I also like the KIA but have found it's easy for Black to avoid it. I will enjoy following this topic.

Thanks, everyone.  Yes, I was asking if learning the English would be helpful in playing the Reti.  Sounds like the answer so far is no.  The reason is because the Reti discourages an immediate ...e5 whereas the English allows it.  Sounds like the converse is more true.  Knowing the Reti can be useful in playing the English. The reason is because the English can sometimes transpose into a Reti-like position.  But the Reti doesn't usually transpose into an English-like position.  Is that a good summary?

So, if I decide to learn the English, it will be for the sake of the English, and not to help the Reti.  I think it should wait then, as much as the English looks like it would be enjoyable to learn.

I want to add the Reti to my KIA for white, first.  I think the Reti is very natural to learn after the KIA, especially since I've been playing the KIA starting from 1.Nf3 and leaving e4 until later, as in; 1.Nf3, 2.g3, 3.Bg2, 4.0-0, 5.d3, 6 Nbd2, in order to remain flexible on whether I want to push e4 or c4.  In fact Chessbase usually labels my games at this point as A07, which ECO describes as Reti: King's Indian.  So learning more about the Reti should only help me from this point.  

I suppose I could ask another question, just in case; "Would learning the English help my KIA?"  Probably not, for the similar reason that it doesn't help the Reti, but I was wrong on my initial guess of English helping the Reti, so maybe I'm wrong on my guess now of English not helping the KIA :).

The broader question for me really is, "After learning the KIA for white, and KID and Pirc for black, what opening might I learn next to broaden my Repertoire for white?"  As I said, I'm thinking Reti, and was thinking maybe I should learn the english along with it.  Sounds like not.

To look at the games of Richard Reti, it is not hard to see that he uses the Nf3, b3, Bb2 moves in advance of c4, which qualifies it as an English Opening variant. I am currently studying these moves and won the only two games I have played using the Reti System so far, though I deviated from Reti a bit. One of my games had more of a Queen's Gambit character to it than an English and in the other I skipped c4 altogether, but I'm not a stickler for making moves in order. I deviate from established lines when the position allows it. In those two games, the positions remained relatively closed most of the way through them. 

 

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessplayer?pid=10626

 

Here are his games. You can study the ones where he played the English Opening. While some of them did not use the system named after him, many of them did. Of particular interest should be the 1924 game where he defeated J.R. Capablanca, the first loss for Capablanca in 8 years, where Reti uses his system. 

Marshal_Dillon wrote:

To look at the games of Richard Reti, it is not hard to see that he uses the Nf3, b3, Bb2 moves in advance of c4, which qualifies it as an English Opening variant.

---

Thanks, Marshal.  I enjoyed looking into the games.

Along this line, I think, when I search for games with the position resulting from white playing a slow KIA, double fianchetto, straight out of the book "Starting Out: Kings Indian Attack," Emms: 1. Nf3 2. g3 3. Bg2 4. O-O 5. d3 6.Nbd2 7.b3, 8. Bb2  

Chessbase finds about 400 games in Big DB 2008

Approx. 150 as A12 English Opening: 1...c6 with b3 by white

Approx. 250 as A07 Reti Opening: New York and Capablanca Systems.

I get the A07 ECO on a lot of my KIA games, which makes sense as I start with 1.Nf3 and play e4, or possibly c4, later.

Interesting that game search comes up with games labeled as English, when c4 hasn't yet been played for white in the first 8 moves.  I guess this is what matthiasmall was talking about in post #2 also.  I didn't realize it could be considered English with no c4 after 8 moves.

Looking more closely at the table of contents in "Starting Out: English," McDonald, I see now: chapter 8 Reti Lines. 

So I see now what some of you are saying.  In cases where the English will lead to a Reti-like position, of course it would help to know the Reti. :).

You got it. Also learning the catalan comes in handy.