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for a start when white brings out his dark squared bishop just move a6 just dont bring out the queenside knight at that point like a moron and its easily defended and whilst white is so determined to inflict his silly oppening he over extends himself and black destroys white.
there is only 1 order of moves that can stop it
The Fried Liver Attack - because almost every move in the opening illustrates some principle of opening development and/or attacking/defending strategies, and many of the moves are forced - almost all "non-book" deviations in the first dozen or so moves leads to immediate disaster
Nimzo I agree, however I think it is much better on the queenside because you can go for a nb5 even after bf5
the regular fried liver attack is alot better than the queenside one.
You always reply with "yea" and "ok" whats up with that
Chessmaster, I disagree. After Bc5 in the kingside version, black is winning, and in the queenside friedliver the line still works after they play bf5. Also in the kingside version, after you win the pawn you get crappy position, in the queenside you get the pawn and are dominating in position.
What are you people talking about? There is no "queenside Fried Liver Attack"
That would be called losing a piece.
Sorry I have to disagee as well with the idea of playing the colle/london type systems as a beginner. The problem with them is that they do prevent fast losses against strong players but not losing in 30 moves doesnt make the game competitive it just makes it last a long time. There is a great deal of learning to be had in losing games in 11 moves. make mistakes and learn from them. The London was taught locally by coach and every master I knew groaned when playing some 1400 player in a tournament where they would whip out 10 moves and then start to think. Losing in 10 moves isnt bad its just you made a mistake so learn!!!
I had this same question once of what to teach kids locally so I just downloaded the games from U8 U10 U12 and looked at what coaches who MUST win games taught their players. guess what? they taught them simple systems with e4, Nf3 Bc4, c3 and the accelerated dragon or 1...e5.
I did an experiment and taught the samething to a student here locally, she is now one of the top players in the nation top 14 top women and top U16 women and will tell anyone that she really doesnt know theory but she gets certain positions intuitively.
summary dont be afraid of losing in 10 moves but learn WHY you lost in 10 moves. playing safe leads to bad habits and does limit future growth later..
Colle/London is a bogus opening for beginners, and not that great for anyone else IMHO (but the Colle is an OK opening). The great hypermodern GM Richard Reti stated in Masters of the Chessboard that beginners should begin (pun intended) with double KP openings (ie open games) and not even play semi-open games such as the FD.
KIA also sucks for beginners it discourages even going thru the motions of attempting to learn a few basic openings (besides the KIA of course).
Don't limit it. They aren't just bogus for beginners. They sucketh mightily!
Well if someone else likes them that's OK by me but I don't recommend them for beginners. Even I play the KIA about once every century or so.
Spudnik what do you mean?
1 d4 d5 2 nc3 nf6 3 bf4 nc6 4 nb5 e5 5 dxe5 nh5
1 e4 e5 2 nf3 nc6 3 bc4 nf6 4 ng5 d5 5 exd5 na5
The Queenside version has much better position in the following moves, and nb5 is playable even if ...nc6 isnt played, whereas you will hang the piece on the kingside after ng5, because of ...qxg5, unless nf6 blocks it in. Maybe that's the piece hanging you were refering to, in the kingside?
the queenside variation is so easily countered its not worth it
Using the two move variations above, tell me how the queenside is easier to counter than the kingside? If anything its harder because after 3 ...bf5, 4 nb5 is still playable, while in the kingisde version 3 ...bc5 4 ng5 hangs a piece
why dont we play a few games and i will show you then as i cant be bothered explaining how its bad for white anymore
See, exactly as I said, you have no explanation as to how the queenside one is worse than the kingside. This is coming from the same guy who says that beginners shouldn't play open games so I doubt he knows what he's talking about. Almost every beginner I know was told to play e4 e5 than nf3 nc6 followed by bc4 (the Italian Game). It develops pieces and shows basic opening principles. I think that is much more suitable for beginners than playing something complex and drawish such as the Nimzo-Indian...
Just who do you expect to play into this?? 3...Nc6 makes no sense at all. Just because you block your c-pawn with a Knight in a double Q-pawn opening doesn't mean your opponent is at all like-minded. The c-pawn is a valuable lever to use against your opponent's center. Sticking a Knight in front of it is only a hindrance. When I'm facing a player who starts with 1.d4 d5 2.Nc3, I usually follow with e6, hoping for a French with 3. e4. If they keep playing silly things like Bf4, I play Bd6 & it looks completely equal to me.
Everything you say also applies for the kingside. nf6 blocks in your f pawn, so why would you do that. The only differnece is that after bf5 nb5 doesn't hang a piece.
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