Everything English!! Communal topic to explore English opening together

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7th February 2008, 10:01pm
#1
by depthshaman
United States
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 278

I'm starting this topic with the hope that chess.com members will post anything they wish to show about the English opening. Please post games you've played with it, traps, strategies, and famous games. Anything English! Hopefully after a while we can get a nice collection of information for people interested in this opening. I'm going to start it off with a rather cool trap played in a game in 1928 between Muller and NN.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Here's what could have happened:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pretty neat. Please post your favorite English opening games.


7th February 2008, 11:09pm
#2
by kolechess
Somewhere Australia
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 242

yeah those are preitty neat games but whats the theory behind the english?

 


8th February 2008, 05:09pm
#3
by depthshaman
United States
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 278

English is a flank opening that immediately claims the d5 sqare. After playing Kc3, white has good control of d5 with out actually having any pieces in the center. The knight can come to d5 if threated by black's b4 and often this outpost can become fairly strong if whit can trade his dark square bishop for black's kingside knight, who also contends for d5.  That's about as much as I know.

Here's another trap involving white playing Bg5 and pinning the knight before he has castled with a kingside fianchetto. Then a famous game by bobby fischer using the english against Boris Spassky.


8th February 2008, 05:43pm
#4
by scandinaviandefense
Michigan United States
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 459

The basic idea of the English Opening is to control the center, ecspecially the d5 square, with moves like Nc3, g3, and Bg2. It is a very solid opening, which has been used by such great players as Fisher, Alekhine, Karpov, Hubner, and Kasparov. Black's counters are as follows:

1... b5

This is known as the Janesch gambit, although I am certain I spelled it incorrectly. This is a fairly uncommon response, and White's most popular responses are 2. cxb5 and 2. e3.

1... c6

This is known as the Caro Defense, and is recommened by Jeremy Silman for players wishing to play an opening similar to the Slav and Caro Kann. This is a very good, though unpopular response, immediantly attacking d5.

1... c5

This is known as the Symmetrical English. Play tends to be not to exciting. The most common continuation is:

2. Nc3    Nc6

3. Nf3    Nf6

1... d5

This is a little known move known as the Anglo-Scandinavian Defense. It is similar to the Scandinavian ( 1. e4 d5). Although I adore the Scandinavian, I have not researched the Anglo much.

1... e6

This is often used by players looking to transpose into the Queen's Gambit declined.

1... e5

This is known as the Reversed Sicilan. This is a very critical response. The normal continuations are:

2. Nc3    Nc6

3. Nf3   Nf6

and

2. g3

1... f5

This is known as the Anglo- Dutch Defense, with play similar to the Dutch Defense.

1... Nf6

This is known as the Anglo- Indian Defense, and is one of the most popular responses. Play can often transpose to Queen's Pawn Openings, although some of the lines have independant significance.


9th February 2008, 03:05pm
#5
by depthshaman
United States
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 278
Thanks for contributing chesslover. Today I will show a devastating attack by white using the English. On the next two games here focus mainly on the moves made by each side's D pawn. Many formations can be achieved by the English opening, but often begginer's overlook the importance of adopting the correct center pawn formation. There is much focus on developing the Cfile and king's fianchetto that players will overlook that in the end, its all about a strong center, and often the best approach is to open it up and control it as seen in these two following games.

4th March 2008, 06:04pm
#6
by depthshaman
United States
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 278
Another cool tactic I have learned to help with black playing B c5 really helps, especially with low level players like me.

5th March 2008, 05:54pm
#7
by ivoryknight71
United States
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 119

what about 5...Bxf2 6.Kxf2 Nxe5 ? Then I'd play e4 or b3.

 

Edit - (This was in response to DepthShaman Bc5)


5th March 2008, 06:26pm
#8
by BasicLvrCH8r
Burlington, VT United States
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 1126

This line of the English gets black a draw often, and it is extremely boring.


5th March 2008, 09:42pm
#9
by verdantlife
Portland, Oregon United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 14
kolechess wrote:

yeah those are preitty neat games but whats the theory behind the english?

 


It's the Sicilian defense for white ;-)

Actually, I wonder why more Sicilian theory doesn't carry over.  Black's typical reply is e5 and then you have the Sicilian with the colors reversed.


5th March 2008, 10:16pm
#10
by kolechess
Somewhere Australia
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 242
Thanks verdantlife I was just noticing the sicilian like structure in the new games he has posted.
6th March 2008, 12:11am
#11
by rednblack
missoula United States
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 110
I find my Sicilian games to be a lot more cutthroat, while my English games tend to be a little more positional.  I wonder if the extra tempo has anything to do with it?
6th March 2008, 12:50am
#12
by Torkil
Germany
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 243
BasicLvrCH8r wrote:

This line of the English gets black a draw often, and it is extremely boring.

 


According to theory, White's best in your line is 6.d4 rather than e3. The first player's score is quite healthy from that position, so I actually wouldn't suggest playing that line as Black. I have had it in quite a few games myself, and I didn't find it soooo boring. Possibly it depends on your perspective:

As Carsten Hansen points out in the foreword to his fantastic book on the Symmetrical  English, having to defend yourself for hours against your opponent's slight initiative can indeed seem quite boring, but sitting on the other side of the board is usually more enjoyable then. There are players who relish in trying to convert this kind of edge into a full point, swedish GM Ulf Andersson being the most famous for making a winning ending out of next to nothing.

To prove my point I will shamelessly give two of my own games, if you don't mind my name appearing between all these Fischers and Kasparovs Wink

By the way, that Fischer-Spasski game features this line as well, and I don't find that boring at all. In that game, 26...Ba1 is played because Black needs the move f7-f6 in response to f2-f4. As that would lock in the bishop, Spasski needs another square for it. 26...Be5 27.f4 doesn't help, d4 and c3 are obviously unavailable, b2 less obviously so: After 26...Bb2 27.Bd3 Nxd3 Black's key defensive piece is exchanged.


6th March 2008, 04:49pm
#13
by depthshaman
United States
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 278
thankyou for correcting me on the sixth post. i believe I had meant to have white play e3 in their at some point. If e3 is played the Bishop can't take on f2.  Great games Torkil! I'm so glad that people are actually posting about my favorite opening now.
13th March 2008, 11:17am
#14
by b-sheers
KC United States
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 402
wow good stuff! English is very nice!
13th March 2008, 04:58pm
#15
by wildcard
Charlotte, NC United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 228
http://www.chessvideos.tv/chess-video-search.php?q=Luis+Coelho  I saw this video on the first day it was published and have played the english opening ever since. This was the most helpful video and lesson I have ever gotten. Hope it helps your games as much as it helped mine. Part one video is Sept 14 and the part 2 is Sept 22
15th March 2008, 05:45pm
#16
by Feldmm1
United States
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 478

Hey. I am a beginner, and I am thinking about learning the English opening because:

  1. I am not very good at playing against the siclian. I am not very good at playing it either, but I have started practicing the Kan sicilian. Hopefully I will improve.
  2. D4 goes into the Indian games, and I have decided not to learn how to counter those yet.
  3. I have not once played against the English with someone my ranking. It does not seem popular for 1350s and if I played it against them, they may not know what to do.

 

So, how should I start learning it? What is the theory behind each variation? What variations do you recommend for me to play? Are there any important more traps I need to know? What games should I study?


15th March 2008, 06:22pm
#17
by KillaBeez
Denver, CO United States
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 1364
I play the Burris Defense against the English.  It is quite an effective positional weapon. 
15th March 2008, 06:49pm
#18
by Feldmm1
United States
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 478

Response to wildcard's post:

I watched part one of that video and it was... amazing. They analized the board like every move and I learned a lot of things about pressing your initiative and space advantage. Usually, if I have less space on the kingside and more on the queenside and they are castled kingside, I try to get space on the kingside instead of attacking my opponent's weaknesses first. Unfortunately, I then lose my initiative if my opponent plays well.


16th March 2008, 01:09am
#19
by Torkil
Germany
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 243

@Feldmm1

Hi there,

if you are a beginner, I would definitely recommend you to learn a bit more about Open Games. They are still the way to go if you want to learn about piece activity and mating attacks, which are basics you have to know regardless of your playing style.

As the development of a chess player is supposed to reflect the stages of chess history, it is vital to first learn the points made by the chess classics, who were exclusively using the open games in their games.

I myself took up the English opening much too early, so somewhere in my active "carreer" I decided to go back to playing 1.e4, which naturally was much more work than if I had done it at the start. Nevertheless it payed of quite well, rocketing my otb rating from the mid 1600s to mid 1900 in the course of two years. Now I have gotten back to playing quiter chess, but I am absolutely sure that this little excursion was absolutely necessary.

So, bottom line is: I wouldn't recommend anyone to take up modern openings too early. Rather continue to play 1.e4 and to answer it with 1...e5   and 1.d4 wih 1...d5, and study the games of the classics from Greco and Damiano to Anderssen and Steinitz. Only then dive into the fine points of modern chess.

Cheers,

Torkil 


16th March 2008, 06:58am
#20
by Feldmm1
United States
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 478
Torkil, do you know a website where they give commentary for the games so I can actually know why they do the exact moves they did?
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