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Fried Liver Attack


  • 4 years ago · Quote · #81

    Conquistador

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #82

    Conquistador

    Compared to the main line with 8.Be2 h6 9.Nf3 e4 10.Ne5 Bd6 11.d4 exd3 12.Nxd3 Qc7 13.b3, black is doing much better in the alternative 8.Bd3 Nd5! 9.Nf3 Bd6 10.0-0 Nf4 11.Re1 Nxd3 12.cxd3 0-0.  8...Nd5! is a very powerful move indeed. 

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #83

    Conquistador

    I hate how the 4.c3 5.d3 line in the Italian sucks all the winning chances out of the game.  Now the game has turned into a Ruy Lopez style game where white plays safe with little risk and black does not have much he can do.  This alone may be a good reason to play the Two Knights Defense.  GMs have been playing this line as the Ruy Lopez has been having trouble from the Marshall Gambit preventing this style.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #84

    Conquistador

    After 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Na5 6.Bb5+ c6 7.dxc6 bxc6 8.Be2 h6 9.Nf3 e4 10.Ne5 Bc5 is probably a better way of playing this variation.  You could lure white into an inferior position.

    11.c3 Bd6 12.d4 exd3 13.Nxd3 Qc7 with the pawn at c3 interfering with the coordination of the pieces.

    Another option is simply 11.0-0

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #85

    DrSpudnik

    CS007 in #83... "still in the experimental stage"

    Surprised

    This stuff has been around since about WWII! How much more experimenting do we need! Laughing

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #86

    Steinar

    Fezzik wrote:

    So, Kasparov drew as Black in an exhibition rapid game against a +2400 and that's shocking? 

    Ok, so the +2400 player was only 13. That is shocking. It should be illegal to be that good and that young! Kasparov's result, not so shocking.


    Hmm, what do you mean, exhibition game? It was a knockout rapid tournament.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #87

    ChristianSoldier007

    DrSpudnik wrote:

    CS007 in #84... "still in the experimental stage"

     

    This stuff has been around since about WWII! How much more experimenting do we need!


     The first move of chess is still in the experimental stage Laughing

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #88

    davegski

    With Ng5, white makes a move that asks to be punished. I used to play this and scored a lot of quick wins against players as weak as I was that almost always recaptured on d5. I was promptly humbled when I lost a game against a Class A who played Na5, and when I played my trick with 8.Qf3, sac'd a second pawn with Be7. My king was killed without a real fight. A nice lesson: either learn a different line that didn't rely on a couple quick tricks, or put a huge amount of time into studying how to properly defend White's material advantage. After having some fun with the King's gambit I decided to learn the Lopez and I'm happy I chose that direction as I'm beginning to pick up on more subtle strategic/positional ideas.

    Point is its mostly beginning/intermediate players who are interested in this line, and generally they play it for tricks. Whether or not White holds an advantage in theory is completely irrelevant for them, because if Black plays properly White's task is to defend in a complex tactical conflict, and this is very difficult without a good deal of study and high tactical acumen. IMO, all the fun is on the black side. I'm no expert, but I feel it might have been better for my development if I'd just begun by playing the Ruy, Scotch, or a more solid line against the two knights. Then again, getting one's pride hurt is a pretty sure way of making progress :-).

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #89

    batgirl

    One different approach to what Tarrasch called a "duffer's move" (Ng5) is the Fritz variation that Hans Berlinger made poplular.  His contention was that Na5 made the Knight decenralized and put it out of play, so as an alternative, he suggested Nd4.

    Here is the earliest example I could locate (and seemingly where the variation name came from). It employs the Gruber line of the Fritz (5....Nd4 6.c3 b5)

     

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #90

    anggara29

    How bout this game buddy?

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #91

    Conquistador

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #92

    Conquistador

    So I looked up on the Lolli theory again.  Black is doing a lot better than I thought.  Playable maybe?  I don't know if I would be picking 5...Nxd5 anytime soon.

    1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.d4 and now:

    6...Bb4+! is the critical move here.

    6...Bb4+ 7.c3 Be7 8.Nxf7 Kxf7 9.Qf3+ Ke6 and white has tried a few moves:

    10.Qe4 b5!? (10...Bf8 might also be playable) 11.Bxb5 Bb7 12.f4 Nf6 13.Bc4+ Ke7 14.Qf5+ Ke8 when black is still alive with a piece for three pawns, but nevertheless, white still should have an advantage after 15.fxe5.

    10.0-0! looks best

    10.0-0 b5?! 11.Bxb5 Bb7 12.Re1 Rf8 13.Qh3+ Kf7 14.dxe5 and white has a significant advantage.

    Better might be 10...Na5

    10.0-0 Na5 11.Qg4+ Kf7 12.Qf3+ =

    White has another shot.

    11.Bd3! Bf6 12.Re1 Nc6 13.Na3 Nde7 14.Bc4+ Kd7 15.dxe5 Nxe5 16.Rd1+ Ke8 17.Rxd8+ Kxd8 18.Qe4 N7c6 19.Bf4 Re8 20.Rd1+ Bd7 21.Qxh7 when black is still breathing, albeit on a respirator, but white is clearly winning.

    11...g6 may be the only move.  White will still have an advantage, but black is still on the board.  As far as best play goes, this might be it.  Black is not lost.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #93

    ChristianSoldier007

    Ok, for one, Ng5 is recommended by Josh Waitzkin, who won several championships when he was younger. Na5 does not let the Fried liver, but for someone who is prepared to meet it, it is not that bad. Also, I believe this line to be more accurate than the lines given in the last few posts:

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #94

    Conquistador

    1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Nxf7 Kxf7 7.Qf3+ Ke6 8.Nc3 Nb4 9.a3 Nxc2+ 10.Kd1 Nxa1! 11.Nxd5 c6 (11...Qh4 may be stronger) 12.Nc7+ Kd6 13.Nxa8 Qh4

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #95

    rich

    That's not the Fried liver.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #96

    Conquistador

    rich wrote:

    That's not the Fried liver.


    What are you refering to?

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #97

    rich

    the very first post,

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #98

    DrSpudnik

    It's the Wilkes-Barre (or Traxler) countergambit.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #99

    ChristianSoldier007

    uhohspaghettio wrote:
    ChristianSoldier007 wrote:

    Ok, for one, Ng5 is recommended by Josh Waitzkin, who won several championships when he was younger. Na5 does not let the Fried liver, but for someone who is prepared to meet it, it is not that bad.

     


    What are you talking about?

    4. Ng5 was the mainline before Josh Waitzkin was even born. Josh Waitzkin did nothing towards the theory for it, and is barely even GM strength.

    Bringing Josh Waitzkin into it is like saying: "2. Nf3 is recommended by a GM who gave a simul at our club and won several tournaments when he was younger". It's ridiculous, no offence.


    No you misunderstand me, he did not do anything for the teory, but he recommends it.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #100

    Conquistador

    From my understanding, unless something drastic has changed in the assessment of the Polerio Variation, GMs consider the Two Knights Defense to be adequate.

    Some GMs would believe the Two Knights Defense should be renamed to Chigorian's Counterattack.


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