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Today me and Samsch had another opening debate just like our from's gambit one. The topic was 2 knights defense fried liver attack. I think that it is a good opening but there are ways black can get equality or even an advantage in this opening with best play from both sides. so what do you guys think?
Also I would suggest you guys use engines to help analyze that way more accuracy in your lines
heres a link to our other argument :)
Black wins the Fried Liver starting from 6 Nxf7 Kxf7 7 Qf3+ Ke6. It has been shown with computer analysis. However, the typical club player (A class or so) can usually win with this opening given that it is very hard to defend. 6 d4 (...Nxd4 7 c3 wins a piece, ...cxd4 7 0-0) is actually objectively stronger than 6 Nxf7. Black's 5...Nxd5 is of course an error, b5 and Na5 are the main alternatives, Na5 being the most frequently played. One line is 6 Bb5+ c6 7 dxc6 bxc6 8 Bf1 with a moderate advantage for White.
ha samsch i told you
The line for equality is this:
I'd be interested in seeing the line that is advantage black though...also, what black player in his right mind risks the lolli... That is the reason I play the traxler as black...
10...Nxa1 (instead of 10...Nd4) is virtually winning for Black- but 9.a3 is a bad move.
Black's best in the Lolli is 6.d4 Nxd4! 7.c3 b5 8.Bxd5 Qxd5 9.f3 c5, when he has some compensation for the piece (a couple of pawns, pair of bishops, good central control). White should be better, but it isn't easy.
@pfren 10...Nxa1 11.Nxd5 and I'll take white every time. 9.a3 makes a lot of logical sense, undermining d5 as the lynchpin of the black position.
1. @Fianchetto123: Nd4 is an option, but related to b5
2. I don't see how Black wins the FLA, it should be a draw, or unclear.
3. @Tazerdadog: After Nd5, what will you do after Kd6? IM pfren is right. Instead of a3?, Qe4! is much better, planning f4, and castling.
4. Obviously there are ways Black can get an advantage or equality, but advantages only occur when someone makes a mistake.
5. I heard that the Fritz and Ulvastad variations are worked out to be better for White (with a computer of course).
I'll post the line as soon as I can get it.
@pfren 10...Nxa1 11.Nxd5 and I'll take white every time.
That's your problem, not mine.
Try finding a good move after 11...Qh4 (Buecker's 11...c6 is also good). The best you can do is entering a very bad ending.
9.a3? makes as much sense as 6.Nxf7? does: Both drop material hoping for Black cooperation, while in both cases white has clearly better moves to play (6.d4 instead of 6.Nxf7 and 9.Qe4/9.0-0/9.Bb3 instead of 9.a3).
d4 is clearly the best continuation for white.
What about cooked liver?
it tastes yummy
I tried to play the Fried Liver and I got outwitted (by a very lowly ranked player). I am not quite sure what the best move is after black plays knight to a5. any ideas??
but then black will push the bishop back with a couple of pawns guarding c6. and the bishop will have to retreat?
8.Qf3 is OK, as long as white doesn't mind fighting for a draw after either 8...Rb8 (Melik has issued a video here on that line) or, probably even better, 8...Be7.
8.Bd3 is the most topical line, but Black is IMO fine here, too.
On top of all that, I believe tha Black is equal by playing 6...Bd7 (instead of 6...c6).
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