Grand Prix Attack?

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20th May 2009, 05:03am
#21
by wango
Arizona United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 165

No you see all the top GM's playing sharp open Sicilians, not the quiet lines.

20th May 2009, 09:14am
#22
by ericmittens
London, ON Canada
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 1856
wango wrote:

No you see all the top GM's playing sharp open Sicilians, not the quiet lines.


Wrongo!

Carlsen and Adams both play the Be2 lines almost exclusively. Not to mention Karpov (throughout his entire career) and just about every top grandmaster plays it fairly regularly. In fact lets look up the stats! According to chess.com's own database Be2 has been playing in the Najdorf 16,479 times. This is second only to Bg5 with 18,064, and well ahead of the third place Be3 (another system I suggested that is fairly easy to pick up) at 13,116 times. Yup, nobody plays these quiet systems...no one at all Undecided

20th May 2009, 02:18pm
#23
by wango
Arizona United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 165
ericmittens wrote:
wango wrote:

No you see all the top GM's playing sharp open Sicilians, not the quiet lines.


Wrongo!

Carlsen and Adams both play the Be2 lines almost exclusively. Not to mention Karpov (throughout his entire career) and just about every top grandmaster plays it fairly regularly. In fact lets look up the stats! According to chess.com's own database Be2 has been playing in the Najdorf 16,479 times. This is second only to Bg5 with 18,064, and well ahead of the third place Be3 (another system I suggested that is fairly easy to pick up) at 13,116 times. Yup, nobody plays these quiet systems...no one at all 


You mention 2 current GM's that play Be2 in one line that doesn't prove me wrong.  The whole point of this discussion wasn't who was right or who was wrong, it was just a discussion about the validity of the Grand Prix attack.  Suffice to say you're not a fan, I think it's completey playable for those under master strength, nuff said. Even playing quiet lines you'll still have to learn many variations of the SIcilian, going for a Anti line, you have to learn one system.  Theoretical discussions below master level doln't mean that much because someone will usually deviate fairly early anyway, and tactics will likely determine the outcome of the game, before an opening novelty.

By the way I've never said, "no one", nor did I get a sarcastic tone with you, if I've done something to piss you off let me know.

23rd May 2009, 09:14am
#24
by Hammerschlag
Queens, New York United States
Member Since: May 2009
Member Points: 153

What are stats good for? I am not a GM or close to that level so the stats of w/l/d seems to not apply to me. At least that is not what I look for when trying to develop my opening. I think style of play should be more of a determinant than stats (of GMs).

Anyway, the Grand-Prix: Can someone list the order of moves? I think the Grand-Prix uses f-pawn for an attack? or am I wrong. I play the Bird's Opening as white so the GPA might be good to add to my opening.

23rd May 2009, 09:18am
#25
by Goatllama
Hampton United States
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 157

GRAND PRIX POWER!! (twin 1 + twin 2 + Bowlman + Mistman)

23rd May 2009, 10:22am
#26
by farbror
Uppsala Sweden
Member Since: May 2007
Member Points: 2417
23rd May 2009, 04:13pm
#27
by wango
Arizona United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 165
Hammerschlag wrote:

What are stats good for? I am not a GM or close to that level so the stats of w/l/d seems to not apply to me. At least that is not what I look for when trying to develop my opening. I think style of play should be more of a determinant than stats (of GMs).

Anyway, the Grand-Prix: Can someone list the order of moves? I think the Grand-Prix uses f-pawn for an attack? or am I wrong. I play the Bird's Opening as white so the GPA might be good to add to my opening.


I tend to agree stats of GM games don't mean much for patzer level players.  Now Eric's point (which is valid) is that it makes sense to play the main lines as they are main lines for a reason.  My counter point was that this takes more time than most of us have to devote to chess; so why not just learn an Anti-Sicilian and save your time to study tactics/endgames/strategy/pawn play/whatever.

The moves for the Grand Prix are

1.e4  c5

2.Nc3  d6 (or Nc6)

3.f4

25th May 2009, 07:09pm
#28
by Gambitking
State line United States
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 522

Guys, I think many of you have missed the point. If you're going to play a gambit system, you have to go all out! I would venture that the Grand Prix is one of the sharpest openings out there, and I would gladly trade sharpness for soundness. Unfortunately, the best line is hidden to most people because of innate disregard for certain move patterns. So here I am again, breaking new ground for gambiteers:

The Gambit King

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