10706 Players currently online!
Man vs. Machine - good luck!
Turn-based games at any time!
Vote for the best move to win!
Do you have what it takes?
Sharpen your tactical vision!
Get advice and game insights!
Learn from top players & pros!
View millions of master games!
Your virtual chess coach!
Perfect your opening moves!
Test your skills vs. computer!
Find the right private coach!
Can you solve it each day?
Bring it all together!
Beginners, start here!
Make friends & play team games!
News from the world of chess!
Search all Chess.com members!
Find local clubs & events!
Who's the best of your friends?
Read what members are saying!
I am starting this thread for discussing the two hypermodern defense in Chess. I like others to share there experience in this openings. It may be usefull for all.
"hypermodern" is a bit of an out-of-date term...
of course it is out-dated!!!!!!!!!
Ironical that hypermodern is an old term... I still use it, thanks to Wikipedia's careful phrasing.
Anyway, I don't study the Grunfeld, because neither I nor the people I play with would do something like that. Kings Indian Defence is sound but I prefer KIA.
I don't think "ironical" is a term at all. At least not yet, and the KID is a response as black, usually after 1. d4 but also reachable by transposition via other move orders, and the KIA is an opening one uses as white. Just to get that straight.
As per the OP, I find the Gruenfeld much more difficult to handle. I don't play either as black, and wouldn't recommend, especially the Gruendfeld, to a lower rated player. In my experience tends to be a little more forcing for white in the early stages, which I don't like at all, whereas the King's Indian Defense leaves me with quite a lot of freedom in how I am going to develop and continue the game.
I always lose in Grenfeld and in KID is is almost a very exciting game and I have many impressive victories...)))
I just bounced Gruenfeld off against a friend.
4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.Nxd5 Qxd5
Which prevents white from getting a hold on the centre. A possible continuation would be:
6.Nf3 Bg4 7.h3(rather similar to the Ruy Lopez counter) Bxf3 g/exf3 8. e5 ...
Which either blocks white's light bishop or exposes its king. If white does dxe5, black can go Qxe5 or Qxd1 and exchange queens, as well as preventing the king from castling.
If white instead does Be3, then... ah, I'm too lazy to analyse any further. Continue my line, anyone?
White doesnt usually play 5 Nxd5 but normal is 5 e4 right away.
I personally prefer both the openings, both this openings are my primary weapons, We need to handle this openings carefully. KID will have a closed position mostly, but Grunfeld have mostly open board position, Grunfeld is more dynamic. KID have some trouble with Bayonet attack and also with KID main line Ne1 line (Kasparov suggest some good alternative to face the Ne1 KID main line) other lines are not fromidable against Black KID setup. For Grunfeld you have to face a most complicated variation like Grunfeld Russian defense, but mostly Grunfeld player will face exchange variation or Anti Grunfeld lines.
Any how both will give a exciting game.
The Grunfeld is easier to play, and has less theory to memorize. Other than that, both are decent, sound openings.
The Grunfeld is easier to play, and has less theory to memorize.
I prefer to play 2...c5, but if I had to choose I'd pick the Grundfeld. The idea behind the opening (put pressure on white's weak d4 pawn) is easier for me to accomplish.
My experience with the grunfeld (I've beaten masters that played it against me and have a better win % then any other defense) is that it creates quick and exciting play with many squares available for both sides to maneuver with. However, I don't think black really gets enough compensation for white's center in that shifting pieces from the queen's-side (blacks offensive) to the king's side in the face of white's advancing center is much too slow.
In Live chess here the grunfeld is almost always a joke. This one line represents about 90% of my online encounters with the grunfeld and it's usually a very easy win.
Factly, Garik quit playing the Grunfeld after that match. He was really struggling in virtually every game he played that opening.
It's quite likely that the Grunfeld is not the sort of opening to employ against players like Tolya!
Myself has used the Grunfeld a lot in my youth, with pretty good results, while I have played only the white side of the KID. But the facts are straight: in certain variations of the Grunfeld, black must forget about winning, and agree with a point split- while in even the most quiet variations of the KID, black CAN play for a win, if he takes some mild positional risks. But the KID does require a very deep positional understanding, as well as a very thorough theoretical preparation (e.g Kramnik's variation in the classical KID with b2-b4 has a huge bulk of theory to learn, probably more than the whole Grunfeld theory!), while the Grunfeld is rather "easy" to play.
Mind you tha the KID can also transpose to a whole lot of benoni/volga positions, while the grunfeld has very little to worry about, regarding transpositions.
Question as to the logic of White's moves in Grunfeld.
Why would White play c4 after Nf6? Wouldn't Nf3 be more natural?
I've tried Grunfeld and my opponent played Nf3. I hastily tranformed it into an ..opening of my own which has no name. I have yet to find the Wikipedia article for it... perhaps it's my own creation.
The most popular and favorable idea for white in a QGD game is to play Ne2 allowing room for f3 e4. If white plays Nf3 early you can get a relatively good version of the QGD and it is worth considering.
You can still continue with the grunfeld move order even if white doesn't play c4. In those games white's most common continuation is the barry attack.
The "Barry attack" is a decent way to play against higher reated opponents without the need to study a lot of theory. Objectively though, it's nothing to worry about. Black has a very clean equalizer (on the border of boredom) via 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Nc3 d5! (unless Black does not mind about pirc/modern structures) 4.Bf4 Bg7 5. e3 Bg4(!) when white has no attack, and the pair of bishops is of no great use in such positions. The "improvement" 5.Qd2 0-0 6.Bh6 may well be in black's favour, e.g. 6...Ne4 7.Nxe4 de4 8. Bxg7 Kxg7 and now 9.Ne5 c5! or 9.Ng5 f5 (Mikhalevski) or 9...e5!? (Lahno) look absolutely great for black.
i like to play Kings Indian defence
Why not play them both !?
GMs and NMs and IMs and stuff
by TheGoalkeeper a few minutes ago
white to play and win
by ebillgo 5 minutes ago
I need a darwing opening
by Kingdom_Hearts 5 minutes ago
Need help getting better at chess
by blueemu 7 minutes ago
by rtr1129 8 minutes ago
Carlsen and the quest for 2900
by Kasporov_Jr 13 minutes ago
4/17/2014 - Mate in 4
by Janitha357 14 minutes ago
by ace_vendetta 17 minutes ago
Looking for live relayers of chess events
by zealandzen 20 minutes ago
Avoid House of Staunton!
by Stalcho 21 minutes ago
Why Join | Chess Topics |
Help & Support |
© 2014 Chess.com
• Chess - English
We are working hard to make Chess.com available in over 70 languages. Check back over the year as we develop the technology to add more, and we will try our best to notify you when your language is ready for translating!