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Has the Berlin completely neutralized 1. e4?


  • 16 months ago · Quote · #41

    srikanth_narahari

    falcogrine wrote:
    srikanth_narahari wrote:

    Matter of taste.

    yes, but still proves that there is no refutation to e4, as there are so many continuations that have been well-established and analyzed, with theory going 20+ moves deep. If you don't like one, there are almost infinitely many others to choose from!

    True in any sensible opening.

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #42

    varelse1

    1.e4 Refuted?? Heck, no!!

    So long as the bongcloud is around, 1.e4 is alive and well!!!

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #43

    falcogrine

    srikanth_narahari wrote:

    True in any sensible opening.

    I could not agree more!

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #44

    srikanth_narahari

    falcogrine wrote:
    srikanth_narahari wrote:

    True in any sensible opening.

    I could not agree more!

    Even the sensibility of an opening (or lack thereof) can be a very subjective and personal matter. Just like college classes. :P

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #45

    SacredMountain

    What's the Berlin??????

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #46

    srikanth_narahari

    Squirrelflight wrote:

    What's the Berlin??????



  • 15 months ago · Quote · #47

    p-wnattack

    if the berlin were to refute anything it would be the ruy lopez. there are many different tries for white to gain an advantage such as the scotch, vienna, and the italian game (can even transpose into variations of the ruy lopez that avoids the berlin usually for a tempo) 

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #48

    Schevenadorf

    The Berlin is a game, with white probably having a tiny something with perfect play. The better player is usually the side that wins, but lower rated white players most likely have better chances to win than lower rated  black players due to the potential of white's kingside pawn majority.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #49

    SacredMountain

    Thanks...

    srikanth_narahari wrote:

    Squirrelflight wrote:

    What's the Berlin??????

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #50

    blasterdragon

    Oran_perrett wrote:

    kasparov has a nice game where he tears down the berlin wall...

    what? i thought Kasparov had a terrible record with the Berlin in a series he coudn't beat Kramnik once at all and when he played it he lost

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #51

    blasterdragon

    has anyone tried to not exchange queens in the berlin to try and play for a win?

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #52

    Oran_perrett

    it's considered better to trade queens but neither gives white much to play around with unless you seriously understand the position, generally pawn structure weaknesses are harder to deal with without queens so that's the idea (to use the better pawn majority in the endgame) behind trading queens not the lack of black castling.

    keeping the queens on the board makes white's better majority less impressive

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #53

    moonnie

    Qe2 would be a good move if white could actually avoid the exchange of queens. However the idea of Nf5 is to play Nd4. 

    So in the position black plays 9. ... Nd4 10. Nxd4 Qxd4 11. Rd1 Bg4 and black is atleast equal. 

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #54

    ThreePawnSac

    People have a tendency to ridiculously overstate their topic to draw in contributors. As far as I know.. it has never failed.

    Just because a position might not look very appetizing to you doesn't mean that the whole line if refuted. Look at GM games. It is sort of a game of chicken between white and black. Deep Fritz 13 plays this line sometimes. It is quite strong. But by that logic, doesn't just about every line get refuted by a strong reply? (which to my understanding just about every line DOES have a strong reply.)

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #55

    blasterdragon

    moonnie wrote:

    Qe2 would be a good move if white could actually avoid the exchange of queens. However the idea of Nf5 is to play Nd4. 

    So in the position black plays 9. ... Nd4 10. Nxd4 Qxd4 11. Rd1 Bg4 and black is atleast equal. 

    okay thanks just wondering why no one played that line

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #56

    keresfan1

    blasterdragon wrote:

    has anyone tried to not exchange queens in the berlin to try and play for a win?

    I posted an article a few weeks ago where I suggested 8. Nbd2 instead of 8. Qe2. This ensures the queens are kept on, and in my opinion, leads to complex play where white has a chance to play for the advantage (or at least make black think for himself).

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #57

    chessBBQ

    Yep it has at the top level but of course you need to be Kramnik

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #58

    chessfreak800

    when Q's are traded castling is not a big problem


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