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i am not really sure how to get a strong position after the caro kahn. I play aggressive openings such as the max-Lange attack, najdorf, slav, and giuoco piano
I'm not sure you can really ask "How do I get a strong position against ___ opening" given that sound openings are really just a means to get to a playable middlegame with equality at worst and a slight advantage as best.
Now If you happen to know the theory and ideas of these positions/structures better than your opponent, you are statistically less likely to go wrong in the opening and give him an advantage. However, with best play on both sides, you don't magically get into a "strong position".
If this were not true, every GM in the world would be playing White vs. the Caro using the "Strong position" variation. Of course => Within days/weeks of this novelty, no GM would be playing the Caro as black ... which we know is "NOT" the case today :)
If you meant to ask "how do I aggressively go after the Caro", that's a different question. Here are a few that I've tried.
1) There's the Panov attack in the Exchange which is aggressive + very useful in learning how to play with an isolated Queen pawn, something every player should know.
2) There's the Mieses gambit (1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Be3) if you really have the stomach for it.
I like the Panov-Botvinnik Attack
shivsky, Yea i guess strong was not the right word, more the slight advantage, i always feel that the position is equal when i play against the caro-kahn, and i dont want any more Panov-Botvinnik, I have really mixed results with it. Also, the opening does not need to be aggressive, but i would prefer that.
Your reasoning sounds like
"I have mixed results with a sound opening line (Panov) => So I won't play it".
If you were a 2000+ player, that reasoning holds water ... one can argue that a)You know a lot about chess given your competency/rating and b) your style and temperament does not suit these structures/positions. Perhaps the level of your opposition (Masters, Experts etc.) requires you to play to your strengths for good results.
However, I am assuming that your rating tracks closely with your playing strength ... indicating that you have a ton of stuff to learn before investing time with openings.
I would slam the brakes and look hard at these "mixed results" and investigate if they are a result of other mistakes that are systemic with your current chess playing. Get with a strong player or coach or post some of these games here for critique.
Don't get me wrong ... we all have styles/preferences for the openings we like/dislike, but don't make the very common mistake (of people at our level) of "shopping for something you really don't need".
This would be similar to overweight person trying to get on an exercise program but spends months trying to find the right pair of jogging shoes! One would think that he ought to really confirm that there was no other logical reason he wasn't hitting his personal weight-loss goals than the "shoes".
Record all of your games and analyze them. Conclusions will gradually appear.
I really suggest to keep trying with the panov. Learning how to play IQP positions is essential. I would also reconsider some parts of your repertoire(the slav and the sicilian) but if you are satisfyed with it there's no reason to change now.
Well, you could explore the Fantasy or Tartakower Variation: 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.f3
or the Milner-Barry Gambit, Rasa-Studier Gambit: 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.f3
or the Ulysses Gambit: 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nf3 dxe4 4.Ng5
You could also try out a total different approach by playing the advance variation 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5
All of the above and many more are found on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caro-Kann_Defence
I play a lot of Caro-Kann games with the black pieces myself, and I am often quite excited about what direction white will choose. There are certainly room for many different types of game play. When I have the white pieces and black plays Caro-Kann I am starting to explore (in the past I mostly played the classical variation with the white pieces, but lately I am going for new excitement).
I don't think a player who likes the Max Lange is going to be a good fit for the Botvinnik-Panov Attack. It's more positional in nature, despite the name.
The whole philosophy behind the Caro-Kann is to neutralize White's chances first of all, to not create weaknesses, and to play for equality first before thinking about trying to win. It is designed to be hard for an aggressive White player to face.
In fact, one benefit of the C-K is that White players often are frustrated by it and make imprudent moves trying to press the issue when there isn't justification for it.
In recent years the emphasis for White has been in the Advance Variation, which has yielded some ingenious plans, but they all are solved sooner or later. If the French Advance gives White no edge, and the C-K version allows the problem Bishop out to a good diagonal, how can it be strong?
Not to pick a fight with the adherents, but the lesser-known and gambit lines just don't get anywhere at all against reasonable play.
An aggressive 1 e4 player probably is best suited to the old main lines, he will have a very slight advantage in space to work with and retain some flexibility. Just be patient and wait for opportunities - even old C-K hands grow weary of not creating weaknesses after a while, it's what chessplayers love to do most, after all. Don't overplay your hand, but watch for opportunities.
You can't get a strong position against the CaroKann. It is very boring and you will puke.
Positions that worry me when I play the caro kann run from sharp "short variation" lines. I am trying to study the caro kann and I have found that without sharp play from black can lead them into a world of hurt. Correct me if short variation is the wrong name for the variation I am talking about It goes a little something like this:
Our own chess.com video author GM Roman Dzindzichashvili has what he calls an easy system to play against the Caro-Kann. It explains a lot about pawn structures and attacking possibilities for White. If you are a diamond member, watch the video.
The exchange variation creates a few problems for Black, one being that Roman does not know of any variation by Black after the exchange variation that will give Black equality. Second, Black can't develop the c8-Bishop the way he would like, pinning Nf3 to Qd1, because White won't play the bad move, Nf3. White also wants the b2-c3-d4 pawn structure. Roman continues by covering attacking ideas for White in this exchange structure.
A side note in the video, in the Queen Gambit's Declined Exchange Variation, Black can't place his bishops on f5 and d6. So, the exchange variation is good for White.
These two duffers had no problem playing this variation of the Caro-Kann in a rapid blindfold.
GM Roman Dzindzichashvili is not exacly known as an obiective author. He certainly knows several ways to equalize against the exchange, but the customer is happyer if he thinks he can force a win with his new weapon, so there's no reason to include the best moves for black in the video ;)
The exchange is a nice practical weapon and probably he shows interesting ideas in the video(which i can't see), but i suggest you to check a database before playing his recommandations(for example:is the line you posted his mainline? because as far as i know 7...Qc8!(instead of d7) is considered the most precise answer for B here, and 5...Qc7 is also a strong early deviation)....i sincerely hope that i'm wrong and that his rememmendations are bloody strong, but from my past experience with his videos i rather doubt it. The idea that W can force an advandage against a sensible defense like the caro is in itself bizarre.
The exchange is a nice practical weapon and probably he shows interesting ideas in the video(which i can't see), but i suggest you to check a database before playing his recommandations(for example:is the line you posted his mainline?
1. because as far as i know 7...Qc8!(instead of d7) is considered the most precise answer for B here, and 5...Qc7 is also a strong early deviation)....i sincerely hope that i'm wrong and that his rememmendations are bloody strong, but from my past experience with his videos i rather doubt it.
2. The idea that W can force an advandage against a sensible defense like the caro is in itself bizarre.
1. Roman also covers 7...Qc8.
2. I'm not familiar with the idea of forcing an advantage.
Opening lines usually yield a slight advantage for White, with best play. Black strives for equality, and somtimes achieves it.
No,good defenses usually lead to equality with best play. The caro kann is one of these. The idea that W can force a += with the exchange is not correct as far as i know. Is 5...Qc7, stopping Bf4 and preparing e5 covered? This scores greatly for B in my database.
Of course i am noone when comfronted with a GM, but my past experience with dzindzi's work plus the total lack of high-level exchange games makes me rather doubtful.
I read every word. Thank you.
I really don't know what to say. I've read that the Caro-Kann is a rock solid defense, one of the best against 1.e4, so it did surprise me to hear Roman claim that there is an easy system to deal with it that gives White a slight advantage in all lines within the exchange variation, his words.
To be fair to Roman, maybe a really strong chess player who is a diamond member can watch the video and offer his or her thoughts. I'm still a beginning chess player.
Probably your idea is the best solution. Since i haven't really looked at the video i might be absolutely wrong.
By the way, the direct 5...e5 also has the reputation of leading to equality (but the variation scores not that great for B on chess365 database)
That said, if you like the positions and ideas explained in the video, why not the exchage? Equality is not a problem until you like your side of the board. I'm sure that the GM shared several nice ideas regardless of the eventual missing lines. Gave a look to a database, fill the gaps and try your new weapon :)
Excellent point. As a beginner, I'm not comfortable with a lot of pawns in the center and keeping track of them. I will usually make a counting error and lose one of them. So, in both the French and the Caro-Kann, I will be happier to play the exchange variation. Last, I can use Roman's ideas in the Caro-Kann, which is far better than having no plan at all.
6/19/2013 - Short and Sweet
by deepak21071974 a few minutes ago
Probably Tactics trainer is going to be changed
by BorgQueen 2 minutes ago
Post your best miniatures here
by Barefoot_Player 4 minutes ago
How do i improve my chess ratings and be a better player?
by NimzoRoy 7 minutes ago
6/16/2013 - The Last Attempt
by PIRATCH 7 minutes ago
I wrote a script that automatically downloads your PGN files
by NimzoRoy 11 minutes ago
6/18/2013 - Tal-Starodub, Petrozavodsk 1984
by balatkayopala 12 minutes ago
No more multiple games for Standard members?
by Phylar 19 minutes ago
What's your playing style?
by topman75 23 minutes ago
by Steve212000 28 minutes ago
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