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how do you use openings???


  • 5 years ago · Quote · #1

    brettregan1

    - Dear chess people --- I have played chess for about twenty years but

    I only push pawns --- I knew about openings from the beginning but

    never took lessons and couldn't be bothered taking the time and

    trouble to learn openings -- now I think I am stuck in a rut and I

    cannot get better unless I learn some openings but I got to thinking

    ??:? how do chess players use opening? by that I mean I look at the

    moves of one -- I think it is called the two knights defense -- well

    if you move one move fine , make the second move fine , make the third

    move ?:??? now I am wondering -- what if the other guy does not make

    the corresponding moves for your particular "opening"??? what do good

    chess players do?? do you continue to make all the moves of that

    opening??? -- so having thought about it --- long story short -- I

    came up with the question I asked you -- namely -- how do good chess

    players use the openings?? I would really appreciate if you could help

    me with a short answer to this dilemma -- please and thank you ---
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    some people could debate the "luck" "skill" thing in chess and they

    are welcome to their opinion on that but I personally believe my game

    is all luck -- as a player who merely pushes pawns -- well my opening

    -- if you call it that -- well I respond "knee jerk" to the moves the

    player I am playing against makes --- well if at the end of the

    opening my players support each other and control lots of squares and

    can move freely and not block each other and my king cannot be put in

    check -- I was "lucky" and made a good opening --- however some times

    in responding to the other players moves at the end of the opening --

    well your pieces can wind up being in each others way and blocking

    each other --- your pieces can be "deployed" but useless and not

    guarding or attacking any important squares --- and one's pawn

    structure could be destroyed leaving no good way to castle --- worse

    yet if the opponent can even remotely "put one's king in check" then

    He can "check" you numerous times until he flukes a material advantage

    -- or even check mate ----- in my personal game I personally try total

    attack and if my opponent defends my attack generally then when my

    attack peeters out I get whumped --- so many people maintain chess is

    all skill but I maintain that unless you are a chess master ( then it

    is all skill ) but unless you are a chess master my personal theory is

    that chess for lesser players involves about 75 percent luck ---

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    So having just pushed pawns all these years I am totally confused as

    to how opening work and how good chess players use openings in a

    "PRACTICAL" way. meaning what if the player does not make the

    corresponding moves for the opening you try to play?????

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #2

    mschosting

    The opening fase is used to develop ones pieces and control the center directly or indirectly with flachettos g3 Bg2 or g6 Bg7.

    If you study an opening you are looking to achieve a certain position/objective, when your opponent desviates from the main line of the opening you must try and take advantage of it either by gaining material, seizing the initiative, getting more space etc.

    Hope this can help a little bit I do not know much better either :(

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #3

    JimSardonic

    Millions of chess games have been played throughout the course of history. Openings consist of the best method of working your way into an equal or advantageous position. Commonly known openings come from years of trying to find the best method of play. It's both players who control it. For example, 1. e4... does black play ...c5? ...e5? ...other? Depending on what black does, white does his next move. Say, 1. e4 e5, 2. Nf3. White could be working into the Ruy Lopez, the Italian game, or other. However, it's back to black to alter the course... Nc6, protecting the attacked e5 pawn? Nf6, entering the petroff defense? The best you can hope for is the best possible reply, and that is all that openings are.
  • 5 years ago · Quote · #4

    WaterAlch

    The best way to explain it might be from your own playing:

    Why do you attack? How do you go about it? Why would you play 1.e4 e5 2. Bc4 d6 3. Qh5?

    In chess, you need to start figuring out (and quick if you want to improve) why you make the moves you make. Likewise, in openings, when you make a move you are choosing not to make another one, or hindering other options.

    1. d4 2. Nc3? You are willingly accepting that your c pawn will not be going anywhere.  That's why some openings consist of d4-c4 and THEN Nc3. To get the c pawn doing some work.

    All openings are done in an order or priority to ensure their moves will be made. Sometimes they go in alternative orders ending up with a similar position.

    Main Point: Openings are decided by what you are wanting with what you are accepting you will have to deal with from the opponent.

    (For me personally if I do d4-c4 I always play a3 before Nc3 so I don't have to deal with the Bb4 trade.)

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #5

    brettregan1

    dear Azure9, on a serious note I really appreciate your answer. When you say," Try not to think of the three phases of the game being different." I feel that sentence in itself demonstrates that you are trying to be helpful. All the answers I have received so far from the four places I have posted it have been helpful and interesting. == In asking this question I myself am amazed that something that should be so rigid so easily lent to tunnel vision can generate so many DIVERSE perspectives on the subject-- namely openings.

    However, when you type;" I have personally never understood the difficulty people have when they ask - - - - - " I think that demonstrates that you do not understand the nature of my QUEST(ion).

    I have played chess for over twenty years now and I can't read chess notation so I never took the trouble to read books on chess openings or even chess books for that matter.

    So if I knew chess openings and then had to improvise because my opponent deviated from the opening. I more than most people would not be uncomfortable improvising because my whole game is improvising and luck.

    So,, I quote-"I have personally never understood the difficulty people have when they ask "What do you do if the opponent deviates from the opening I've prepared?"== does not address the question.

    Now for example, On live chess I just won nine games in a row-- then I lost two games. The nine games I won had rating equal or less than mine -- I won two games against higher rating ( but not much higher ) -- I am 1347 there -- I lost two games against 1500 ratings.

    Well before this happened the thought occurred to me that if I want to get better then there is probably only one way. I THOUGHT I WOULD HAVE TO STUDY AND LEARN OPENINGS AND MAYBE READ A CHESS BOOK. Now this is counter culture to me because if I am going to devote 1000 hours on a course I would rather the subject be somethings which could get me a million dollars.

    When the thought of learning openings came to me then I thought. HOW DO GOOD ( GREAT ) CHESS PLAYERS USE OPENINGS. Any one can use a manual. But how do the good players ( such as yourself since you obviously know what you are talking about)

    == this is a mute point == but I would like to try to illustrate my dilemma and try to make it plain === here's me I decide I am going to play some one and I will use the two knight's defense. I make the 1 first move. my oponent does not make the corresponding move. I make the 2 move of the 2KD. the opponent does not. make the corresponding move. -- well for the third move and the rest of the game I just wing it and improvise. ===== So I could think I played the 2KD but I did no such thing. SSSSOOOO I explained I know nothing about books and openings SSSSOOO I got to wonder how ANYONE anyone can play and use openings. === having posted this question I am getting answers and getting kinda opening enlighted.

    On a not so serious note. Please don't be offended but you have no chance of relating to my opening QUEST(ion) dilemma because if you think about it I am in Canada and you are in Australia so really you might play chess but you actually play chess upside down. If fact when I "drive on" the right side of the chess board you probably "drive on"  the left side of the chess board. However I really appreciate your answer.

    I am further amazed at how every one may have two arms and two legs and one head so everything so be similar. yet there are so many instances of people thinking uniquely. like when you suggest-- don't think opening middle game end game == well I would suggest that would be a unique chess philosophy.

    Thank you for your answer bye

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #6

    trigs

    openings are used to lead to desired middle games (of which relate to your personal style of play), and middle games are used to lead to winning endgames.

    simply in essence. obviously difficult in practical terms.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #7

    Conzipe

    Openings are standard move sequences created so both players can share an equal game (this was at least the idea in the beginning).

    Then things became more complicated...

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #8

    mschosting

    I think Iam starting to understand your problem, its not white who choses the opening, most of the time black is the one to choose. If you want to play the 4K opening you start e4 then your opponent plays 1d5 its complicated Laughing

    What you have is typical pawn structures for example the kings indian you can play either black or white g3 Bg2 or g6 Bg7. stonewall variations as white e3 f4, or black d6 f5 etc.

    Most masters choose their openings according to their playing style, if they are more aggressive and tactical they will like open games with 1e4 and the sicilian as black e4 - c5

    If they are more positional they can go for d4 or c4 openings with the Queens gambit, catalan etc.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #9

    gambitlover

    WaterAlch wrote:

    1. d4 2. Nc3? You are willingly accepting that your c pawn will not be going anywhere.  That's why some openings consist of d4-c4 and THEN Nc3. To get the c pawn doing some work.


    A question mark after Nc3 ?

    So what about 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 ,  blacks c-pawn is blocked too .  Nobody ever claims this to be a bad move ...

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #10

    ElectricEel

    Gambitlover, I think that WaterAlch is trying to make the point that generally, you want to be able to move your c pawn in Queen's Pawn games (unlike in the King's Pawn Games, where it is obviously less important).

    But brettregan1, even if you just shove some random pawn forward, you are playing a known opening at least for the first few moves (that's why you'll find so many different openings), and probably a good answer to your question - there are many openings, and if a chess player knows a good number, he can still play his 'book' moves.

    I'm no master, but I know the first dozen moves of the Ruy or the Yugoslav Attack (main line of course), as well as the first half dozen moves in at least three or four other openings, and the defining moves of a dozen more (so not beyond the first three or four moves). Generally, of course, if your opponent does not play the opening you prepare, then play sensibly according to the opening principles (which are far easier to learn than the openings themselves anyway).

    If you want to start upon an opening repertoire (what I was referring to when I said a player can, in general, still play 'book' moves). Then decide if you want to play King's Pawn or Queen's Pawn (or maybe modern). Say I want to play e4. Then I'll play the Ruy Lopez against e5 (a common reply), and possibly the Grand Prix Attack against the Sicilian (another common reply). Then I'll decide my defences against e4, d4 and possibly Nf3, etc. as Black - say the Caro-Kann against e4 and the Slav against d4. Then you'll be playing an opening you know in most of your games - simple as that.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #11

    MyCowsCanFly

    There's a book that I like that addresses the question.

    Rueben Fine, "The Ideas Behind Chess Openings."

    It's available for free download online. He stresses the need to understaning the logic underlying various openings in order to cope with deviations/variations.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #12

    Hammerschlag

    mschosting wrote:

    The opening fase is used to develop ones pieces and control the center directly or indirectly with flachettos g3 Bg2 or g6 Bg7.

    If you study an opening you are looking to achieve a certain position/objective, when your opponent desviates from the main line of the opening you must try and take advantage of it either by gaining material, seizing the initiative, getting more space etc.

    Hope this can help a little bit I do not know much better either :(


     You are a chess teacher by profession, rated 1850 FIDE, a live-quick rating in the 1900s, and that's all you can offer? Are you for real?

    Use the opening to get yourself into the middlegame in decent shape...use your opening knowledge to keep from falling into traps. Mainly use it to get a good position where you will have opportunity to win in the middle and endgame. That's really the main thing about openings. Do not try to memorize lines, because like you said, what if you opponent does not follow along the lines you are looking for, then you are loss. It's not about memorizing lines more than getting your pieces developed to good squares.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #13

    jac

    What crap!  Make a move and then respond.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #14

    trysts

    Hammerschlag wrote:
    mschosting wrote:

    The opening fase is used to develop ones pieces and control the center directly or indirectly with flachettos g3 Bg2 or g6 Bg7.

    If you study an opening you are looking to achieve a certain position/objective, when your opponent desviates from the main line of the opening you must try and take advantage of it either by gaining material, seizing the initiative, getting more space etc.

    Hope this can help a little bit I do not know much better either :(


     You are a chess teacher by profession, rated 1850 FIDE, a live-quick rating in the 1900s, and that's all you can offer? Are you for real?

    Use the opening to get yourself into the middlegame in decent shape...use your opening knowledge to keep from falling into traps. Mainly use it to get a good position where you will have opportunity to win in the middle and endgame. That's really the main thing about openings. Do not try to memorize lines, because like you said, what if you opponent does not follow along the lines you are looking for, then you are loss. It's not about memorizing lines more than getting your pieces developed to good squares.


     "You are a chess teacher by profession, rated 1850 FIDE, a live-quick rating in the 1900s, and that's all you can offer? Are you for real?"

     

    Somehow I feel like all hell is going to break looseLaughing

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #15

    gorgihow

    well here i go putting my 2 cents in . the main reason for openings is to develop your pieces in quickly and in a timely fashion . now as to what opening to use that depends on your playing style if you are an aggressive player i recommend e4 . if you are not an aggressive player d4 . this the tip of the iceberg i am sorry you waited 20 year to decide to learn an opening now you may have picked up bad habits this will  challenge  you but if you put in the work . your hard work will bare fruit . i hope you have a data base if not use the one on this site .  

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #16

    mschosting

    trysts wrote:
    Hammerschlag wrote:
    mschosting wrote:

    The opening fase is used to develop ones pieces and control the center directly or indirectly with flachettos g3 Bg2 or g6 Bg7.

    If you study an opening you are looking to achieve a certain position/objective, when your opponent desviates from the main line of the opening you must try and take advantage of it either by gaining material, seizing the initiative, getting more space etc.

    Hope this can help a little bit I do not know much better either :(


     You are a chess teacher by profession, rated 1850 FIDE, a live-quick rating in the 1900s, and that's all you can offer? Are you for real?

    Use the opening to get yourself into the middlegame in decent shape...use your opening knowledge to keep from falling into traps. Mainly use it to get a good position where you will have opportunity to win in the middle and endgame. That's really the main thing about openings. Do not try to memorize lines, because like you said, what if you opponent does not follow along the lines you are looking for, then you are loss. It's not about memorizing lines more than getting your pieces developed to good squares.


     "You are a chess teacher by profession, rated 1850 FIDE, a live-quick rating in the 1900s, and that's all you can offer? Are you for real?"

     

    Somehow I feel like all hell is going to break loose


    lol I can suck but while I can beat Hammerschlag Iam happy anyway Tongue out

    And no Iam not for real... (unless you pay then yes Iam very real!)

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #17

    jac

    What hooey!  Make your move-make your response-then ponder

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #18

    WaterAlch

    gambitlover wrote:
    WaterAlch wrote:

    1. d4 2. Nc3? You are willingly accepting that your c pawn will not be going anywhere.  That's why some openings consist of d4-c4 and THEN Nc3. To get the c pawn doing some work.


    A question mark after Nc3 ?

    So what about 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 ,  blacks c-pawn is blocked too .  Nobody ever claims this to be a bad move ...


    Lol. I never claimed it a bad move. I just went ahead and put it in question form to pose it as the ramifications of that move versus another possibility.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #19

    rich

    openings are simple it's not rocket science, you just select a few openings to suit your style and add them to a repertoire.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #20

    Hammerschlag

    mschosting wrote:
    trysts wrote:
    Hammerschlag wrote:
    mschosting wrote:

    The opening fase is used to develop ones pieces and control the center directly or indirectly with flachettos g3 Bg2 or g6 Bg7.

    If you study an opening you are looking to achieve a certain position/objective, when your opponent desviates from the main line of the opening you must try and take advantage of it either by gaining material, seizing the initiative, getting more space etc.

    Hope this can help a little bit I do not know much better either :(


     You are a chess teacher by profession, rated 1850 FIDE, a live-quick rating in the 1900s, and that's all you can offer? Are you for real?

    Use the opening to get yourself into the middlegame in decent shape...use your opening knowledge to keep from falling into traps. Mainly use it to get a good position where you will have opportunity to win in the middle and endgame. That's really the main thing about openings. Do not try to memorize lines, because like you said, what if you opponent does not follow along the lines you are looking for, then you are loss. It's not about memorizing lines more than getting your pieces developed to good squares.


     "You are a chess teacher by profession, rated 1850 FIDE, a live-quick rating in the 1900s, and that's all you can offer? Are you for real?"

     

    Somehow I feel like all hell is going to break loose


    lol I can suck but while I can beat Hammerschlag Iam happy anyway

    And no Iam not for real... (unless you pay then yes Iam very real!)


     I wasn't asking if you can or cannot beat me...someone with a Live-quick rating in the 1900s and a FIDE 1850 rating should be able to beat me easily; I don't even play quick/bullet/rapid because I need time to think.

    My questions stems from the fact that you are a "chess teacher" and that's all you can offer in response to the guy's question. There's something not right there; I would not be paying for tutoring from anyone that does not no much better either, I know that much already.

    "Hope this can help a little bit I do not know much better either" ~ mschosting


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