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How many rating points is a photographic memory worth?


  • 2 years ago · Quote · #2

    hicetnunc

    Tons ! Smile

    Just imagine leafing through 300 chess books and remembering everything !

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #3

    pellik

    It still freaks me out that Carlson has 10,000 games memorized.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #4

    trysts

    I just watched a chess documentary last night, and in it Fischer claimed not know any of the old master games by heart.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #5

    hicetnunc

    Ivanchuk also said he had 10,000 games in his 'personal database', but didn't manage to increase this number Tongue out

    For Kasparov, I heard 50,000 in some documentary.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #6

    eddiewsox

    I used to know the answer  to this one, but I forgot. 

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #9

    theunsjb

    I used to have a photographic memory, but it was never developed. Undecided

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #10

    Peedee

    Photographic memory is different from eidetic memory. There are many people who exhibit what would commonly be called photographic memory. It's eidetic memory that's extremely rare or possibly non existent.
  • 2 years ago · Quote · #11

    TheGrobe

    Can't recall.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #12

    TheGrobe

    hicetnunc wrote:

    Tons !


    Rating points have mass?

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #13

    AnthonyCG

    That's heavy.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #14

    browni3141

    I wouldn't think it'd be worth a whole lot. I don't think memory would help you much outside of opening theory.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #15

    TheGrobe

    You don't place any value on coming out of the opening phase with a clear advantage?

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #16

    Eternal_Patzer

    For weak players a photographic memory probably is less useful than you would think.  Here's Dan Heisman's "thought experiment" on the subject of perfect memory (for opening moves)

     

    Taken From his "Novice Nook" column at Chesscafe, found here:

    http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman127.pdf

    How much does memorizing extra opening moves help?

    Try the following "thought experiment," which reveals quite a bit about the 

    relative importance of memorizing opening sequences:

    1.  Assume that when a player is "in the book" he can play at a 3000 

    playing strength, but after he is "out of book" his strength returns to his 

    current rating.

    2.  Assume that because of the exponentially growing number of 

    variations, as one studies further into the same opening line one gets 

    diminishing returns. One cannot only learn fewer moves deeper per 

    study time, but the chances that any opponent will play those moves also diminishes. If we lock the average player away for two years and 

    he studies only opening lines, he can probably go about four ply (two 

    moves) deeper before either his knowledge is exhausted or a similar 

    rated opponent takes him out of book.

    3.  Finally, compare three "theoretical" chess matches: In Match A, two 

    GMs rated 2700 FIDE play; In Match B, two players rated 1700; and in 

    Match C, two players rated 700.

    In Match A obtaining a slight opening advantage is important. Because GMs 

    rarely make big mistakes, it is possible for a GM to hold onto a slight 

    advantage and play for a extended period – perhaps the entire game – for a 

    win or at worst a draw. Therefore, although the players' strength may fall off 

    300 points when they get out of book (3000-2700), getting a slight advantage 

    out of the opening is a big deal for players that usually only make tiny 

    mistakes.

    In Match B the playing strengths fall off 1300 points (from 3000 down to 

    1700) as soon as the players get out of book. That large drop-off means that it 

    is very easy for the player who gets a slight advantage to throw it all away (or 

    more) on any one move. A slight advantage might be the equivalent of less 

    than a pawn, say 0.1-0.3 pawn equivalent, but players rated 1700 routinely 

    make moves that are much less than optimum. In complicated positions, they 

    err much more than that. 

    So for players at this level getting a small advantage out of the opening is 

    nice, but it is primarily the psychological aspect of an opening advantage (to 

    give them some confidence) that helps the most. Learning a couple of extra 

    moves will thus likely have a very small effect on the outcome of the game. It 

    is much more effective to spend that study time learning to play better than a 

    1700 once you are out of the opening! There's only approximately two moves 

    that will benefit from the extra opening study, but more than thirty moves out 

    of the book. Therefore, what you do after you are out of book has a much 

    bigger effect than knowing two more moves, even if once in a while your 

    opponent falls into an opening trap and you win the game immediately.

    In Match C the situation deteriorates considerably, as the ratings fall off 2300 

    points after the book moves. With this level of play, getting a slight advantage 

    from the opening, or even a distinct one, is almost meaningless. The optimum 

    learning strategy for 700 players is not to try to memorize more opening 

    moves, but rather to learn how to identify and make safe moves, even in the opening.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #17

    waffllemaster

    Yeah, my first thought is it the usefulness scales up with rating.  But I do think it could be worth a lot.  Consider a solid player who spent 10 years hovering around 2000 level. 

    A total guess of course, but if they were able to memorize a few thousand GM games during that time I think that would be worth maybe 300 rating points or so because their analysis/understanding is likely competent enough after 10 years as an expert, they just can't discard poor moves/plans as quickly to spend time on the correct ideas.

    Again, a complete guess, and the usefulness would vary from person to person.

     

    Oh, and if all they used it for was to memorize opening moves, then probably worth a lot less until you're much further up there.  I think it would be much more useful to use a perfect memory on linking ideas to structures and positions as seen in GM games.  What worked, what didn't and why.  That sort of thing.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #18

    waffllemaster

    uhohspaghettio wrote:
    trysts wrote:

    I just watched a chess documentary last night, and in it Fischer claimed not know any of the old master games by heart.


    But he did go through several hundred of Morphy's alone. And he stated that it sometimes took him about 20 minutes to find an answer to some of the moves Morphy made.  

    But there is no such thing as photographic memory, it's a complete myth. Chess players are found to have pretty normal memories in all other subjects, and even winners of the world memory championships claim to in actual fact have average memories. 

    I read recently on a blindfold sight about an amazing painter who claimed he could play blindfold chess very easily shortly after learning the game and the reason was because his visual memory was so well developed from his painting. So he could "paint" the chess positions in his head if he liked. But this was after many years of developing his skill of viewing things through the "mind's eye". I'm sure he remembers conversations or what he reads in a book about the same as any of us. There is no such thing as photographic memory.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2006/04/kaavya_syndrome.html


    Interesting.  Another form is something I've heard called "autobiographical" memory where the person has "total" recall of everything they've ever experienced back to an early age... but I suspect after reading your link that they too only remember almost everything, and it's still short of total recall.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #19

    eddiewsox

    I think that a photograhic memory would help in end games as well and perhaps in the middle game with tactics and weaknesses in particular structures. 

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #20

    browni3141

    TheGrobe wrote:

    You don't place any value on coming out of the opening phase with a clear advantage?


    Some value sure, but I was thinking about an beginner to strong-intermediate player, where advantages much less than a pawn don't mean very much. They mean something, but I don't think they mean a lot.


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