how to beat the trompowsky?

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5th July 2009, 07:43am
#21
by ericmittens
London, ON Canada
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 1850
turn wrote:
ericmittens wrote:
turn wrote:

I have three questions:

1. After c5, what do I reply after d5?

2. After c5, what do I reply after dxc5?

3. Why is taking with the g-pawn better and not the e-pawn?

Hope you can answer soon! Thank you very much!


1.Qb6

2.Na6

3.Captures toward the center, rook can go to g-file to pressure the kingside, bishop can come to a6 to pressure the weak queenside dark squares.


Can you offer an explanantion on how Qb6 can rectify the situation? How does it help? Does it dispose of the d5 pawn? Or does it create positional weaknesses for White? Or what?

And doesn't Na6 brings Black's Knight to a disadvantageous square? Isn't Ne4 or Qa5+ and then taking the d5 pawn much better? Why is Na6 better?

I hope you can reply soon. Thank you!


After 3.d5 Qb6! black attacks the dark squares (specifically b2) which were weakened by white's premature bishop development. Really the whole point of the move 2...c5 in the tromp is to put pressure on white's dark squares, since white will always be weak on that complex.

Ahh I checked my book and after3.dxc5 e6! is the move yes yes...black simply regains the pawn and continues normal development. 

5th July 2009, 04:28pm
#22
by mnag
San Diego United States
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 133
likesforests wrote:

Does anyone have books that cover the Trompowsky? I'm really curious what various books say and recommend after reaching the position:

1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 e6 3.e4 h6 4.Bxf6 Qxf6

Where White controls the center but Black has the bishop pair. 


Greek IM Andreas Tzermiadianianos in New In Chess Yearbook #78, 2006, suggests 5. c3 as "A Safe Try for a Small Advantage". Which by the way was the title of his survey!

6th July 2009, 02:26am
#23
by turn
Kuala Lumpur Malaysia
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 1721
ericmittens wrote:
turn wrote:
ericmittens wrote:
turn wrote:

I have three questions:

1. After c5, what do I reply after d5?

2. After c5, what do I reply after dxc5?

3. Why is taking with the g-pawn better and not the e-pawn?

Hope you can answer soon! Thank you very much!


1.Qb6

2.Na6

3.Captures toward the center, rook can go to g-file to pressure the kingside, bishop can come to a6 to pressure the weak queenside dark squares.


Can you offer an explanantion on how Qb6 can rectify the situation? How does it help? Does it dispose of the d5 pawn? Or does it create positional weaknesses for White? Or what?

And doesn't Na6 brings Black's Knight to a disadvantageous square? Isn't Ne4 or Qa5+ and then taking the d5 pawn much better? Why is Na6 better?

I hope you can reply soon. Thank you!


After 3.d5 Qb6! black attacks the dark squares (specifically b2) which were weakened by white's premature bishop development. Really the whole point of the move 2...c5 in the tromp is to put pressure on white's dark squares, since white will always be weak on that complex.

Ahh I checked my book and after3.dxc5 e6! is the move yes yes...black simply regains the pawn and continues normal development. 


ericmittens, after Qb6, White's Queen sure can bring up quite a storm, but I just don't like that pawn on d5 obstructing me from playing d5 AND preventing me from allowing my Knight to develop properly. Therefore, I look forward to disposing of White's pawn on d5 as soon as possible. Will Qb6 contribute to this? If so, can you please provide a sequence of moves (recommended on the board) so that I know how to continue accurately?

 

Also, can I play Qa5+ and take the pawn? And what if White replies by d6?

6th July 2009, 04:20am
#24
by turn
Kuala Lumpur Malaysia
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 1721

so?

6th July 2009, 04:27am
#25
by rich
My Home United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 22808

I play the Trompowsky a lot.

6th July 2009, 05:23am
#26
by marvellosity
Portsmouth United Kingdom
Member Since: May 2009
Member Points: 1450

I play as Black 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 d5 3.Bxf6 gxf6.

Leads to interesting play and I can't find any advantage for White anywhere.

6th July 2009, 05:46am
#27
by ericmittens
London, ON Canada
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 1850
turn wrote:
ericmittens wrote:
turn wrote:
ericmittens wrote:
turn wrote:

I have three questions:

1. After c5, what do I reply after d5?

2. After c5, what do I reply after dxc5?

3. Why is taking with the g-pawn better and not the e-pawn?

Hope you can answer soon! Thank you very much!


1.Qb6

2.Na6

3.Captures toward the center, rook can go to g-file to pressure the kingside, bishop can come to a6 to pressure the weak queenside dark squares.


Can you offer an explanantion on how Qb6 can rectify the situation? How does it help? Does it dispose of the d5 pawn? Or does it create positional weaknesses for White? Or what?

And doesn't Na6 brings Black's Knight to a disadvantageous square? Isn't Ne4 or Qa5+ and then taking the d5 pawn much better? Why is Na6 better?

I hope you can reply soon. Thank you!


After 3.d5 Qb6! black attacks the dark squares (specifically b2) which were weakened by white's premature bishop development. Really the whole point of the move 2...c5 in the tromp is to put pressure on white's dark squares, since white will always be weak on that complex.

Ahh I checked my book and after3.dxc5 e6! is the move yes yes...black simply regains the pawn and continues normal development. 


ericmittens, after Qb6, White's Queen sure can bring up quite a storm, but I just don't like that pawn on d5 obstructing me from playing d5 AND preventing me from allowing my Knight to develop properly. Therefore, I look forward to disposing of White's pawn on d5 as soon as possible. Will Qb6 contribute to this? If so, can you please provide a sequence of moves (recommended on the board) so that I know how to continue accurately?

 

Also, can I play Qa5+ and take the pawn? And what if White replies by d6?


Well, the move 3.d5!? in the 2...c5 tromp is known as the vaganian gambit. White is more or less forced to sacrifice his b2 pawn but in return he gets a nice center and development. As black you pretty much have to live with this if you want to play the 2...c5 line. According to theory black can get good play but white will always have more space. The main line goes like this.

7th July 2009, 01:47am
#28
by turn
Kuala Lumpur Malaysia
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 1721

Yes, there is a lot less space for Black here.....you mean I have no chance to take the annoying d5 pawn and have to be content with having a cramped position(but an active Queen)?

Is there another way to prevent Black from being so cramped?

7th July 2009, 02:02am
#29
by turn
Kuala Lumpur Malaysia
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 1721

Can't Black play Ne4 at move 5?

7th July 2009, 04:43am
#30
by ericmittens
London, ON Canada
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 1850

To be honest I haven't once played against the vaganian gambit OTB, most people just play Bxf6 on move 2. Though if I ever did I wouldn't worry, black has a nice position at the end of the above line. Black's pieces are well-placed, the e4 pawn is a target, black has play down the c-file, and there is still a pawn break (g6) available...a very pleasant position for black.

If you're really averse to having less space you might want to consider the 2...d5 lines in the tromp.

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