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How to play agains this weird response to Italian


  • 18 months ago · Quote · #1

    AgressiveAttack

    Didn't rly find what to respond in the game.

  • 18 months ago · Quote · #2

    Stampnl

    It's the Rousseau gambit innit, invented by Jean-Jacques just days after he invented the social contract. White's best response is indeed to decline the gambit with 4. d3 and to wait to capture the f-pawn, dixit wikipedia.

  • 18 months ago · Quote · #3

    Irontiger

    Stampnl wrote:

    It's the Rousseau gambit innit, invented by Jean-Jacques just days after he invented the social contract. White's best response is indeed to decline the gambit with 4. d3 and to wait to capture the f-pawn, dixit wikipedia.

    Actually, according to wikipedia, this is not the same Rousseau but another, that was a chess player (link). Rousseau is not an uncommon name in France.

    As for the quality of his gambit, it just proves that in the 19th they have tried anything...

  • 18 months ago · Quote · #4

    Irontiger

    jempty_method wrote:
    paulgottlieb wrote:

    But they would have called it "Le Parham"

    Or, Le Royale with Cheese, because after all, they are on the metric system.

    Don't get me started on the metric system, you 0.001056329 miles tall. (After converting this to feet, you will understand why we like the metric system Smile )

  • 18 months ago · Quote · #5

    melvinbluestone

    I'm not crazy about the metric system, it's too bland and impersonal. But this "system" we have in the U.S. is arguably worse. It has the drawback of being used by only a handful of countries, who, I guess, are stubbornly waiting for the rest of the world to convert to feet and inches. And that's another thing: our system is anthropomorphically inconsistent. If the basic unit is called the 'foot', then segments of that unit should be called 'toes', not 'inches'. And a 'yard' should be called a 'leg' or something. They just didn't think this thing through........

  • 18 months ago · Quote · #6

    chesswiz625

    melvinbluestone wrote:

    I'm not crazy about the metric system, it's too bland and impersonal. But this "system" we have in the U.S. is arguably worse. It has the drawback of being used by only a handful of countries, who, I guess, are stubbornly waiting for the rest of the world to convert to feet and inches. And that's another thing: our system is anthropomorphically inconsistent. If the basic unit is called the 'foot', then segments of that unit should be called 'toes', not 'inches'. And a 'yard' should be called a 'leg' or something. They just didn't think this thing through........

    Although this isn't the place to argue over the metric system, the reason why the US doesn't just drop the Imperial system altogether is not because we are stubborn, but because an immediate change is nearly impossible to pull off without many difficulties. A few Americans indeed are unwilling to learn a new system, but not because they are too attached to the old system, but because they have been using a system that they know for many years (20+, 40+, etc), and would have trouble understanding the new system. The US is, however, making the transition. We are starting to include both the Metric and Imperial systems on our products (1 gallon of milk is also listed as 3.79 Liters). 

    ON TOPIC
    The opening we are talking about is the  Rousseau gambit. The best response for White is either d3 or d4. 


     

  • 18 months ago · Quote · #7

    melvinbluestone

    Oh, yeah, about the Rousseau Gambit: I try this thing every now and then as a 'surprise' weapon against the Giuoco. Usually the only surprise is how quickly I lose. But white has to be careful and not charge in too quickly. Against 4.d4, black does have resources, and the line seen in this game is probably fairly common on the club level:

  • 18 months ago · Quote · #8

    ponz111

    You played ok.  I would  have played 7. 0-0 rather than 7. Qh5+ 

  • 18 months ago · Quote · #9

    melvinbluestone

    @chesswiz625:   "The US is, however, making the transition."  

         According to Wikipedia, the metric system was officially sanctioned for use in the U.S. in 1866. Pretty slow transition.......  Hey, don't get me wrong: I love feets (sic) and inches. I just wish they would make up their minds. A lot of goods manufactured in the U.S., cars for example, have some parts using metric units and others using inches. But we're not alone. The British are still using Whitworth screw threads, and I believe they mix them in with metric nuts and bolts on their cars.

  • 18 months ago · Quote · #10

    melvinbluestone

    Black's 3...d6, the 'Rome Defense', or whatever it's called, is probably solid enough. but white's 4.h3 is unnecessary and time wasteing. However, the idea of trying to prevent Bg4 is logical enough, so the move shouldn't be criticized too harshly. I've gotten clobbered a number of times by playing an immediate 4.d4, after which 4...exd4 or even 4...Nf6 gave black a good game. The patient 4.c3, preparing to occupy the center, may be best. In this game, black goes ahead and plays 4...Bg4, the move 4.h3 was intended to prevent..... Nothing spectacular here; I just like posting games I've actually won, which are few enough.

  • 18 months ago · Quote · #11

    melvinbluestone

    "It's not the Rome defense, why would you say that? It's pretty well accepted that it's the Paris Defense."

      Rome, Paris, Madrid, Brussels.......  What's the difference? Just a bunch of euro-capitals. As for the city of light garnering 3...d6 as it's namesake..... Huge blunder. They should stick to aesthetics, as in Degas and Manet. The Parisien contribution to chess may be debateable, but when it comes to visuals, Paris is unsurpassed......... Witness Camille Pissarro:

  • 18 months ago · Quote · #12

    Irontiger

    There are some openings that have different names - particularly the strange ones. At a lesser extent, the Spanish / Ruy Lopez and the Russian / Petroff also have two names...

    As long as you remind the moves somewhere it remains clear.

  • 18 months ago · Quote · #13

    varelse1

    jempty_method wrote:
    paulgottlieb wrote:

    Relax, Tiger! That was a "Pulp Fiction" reference, not a jab at the metric system

    Hamburgers, the cornerstone of any nutritious breakfast!

    Only with pineapple.Tongue Out

  • 18 months ago · Quote · #14

    DaBigOne

    IMO, d4! is the best move:



  • 18 months ago · Quote · #15

    DaBigOne

    melvinbluestone wrote:

    Black's 3...d6, the 'Rome Defense', or whatever it's called, is probably solid enough. but white's 4.h3 is unnecessary and time wasteing. However, the idea of trying to prevent Bg4 is logical enough, so the move shouldn't be criticized too harshly. I've gotten clobbered a number of times by playing an immediate 4.d4, after which 4...exd4 or even 4...Nf6 gave black a good game. The patient 4.c3, preparing to occupy the center, may be best. In this game, black goes ahead and plays 4...Bg4, the move 4.h3 was intended to prevent..... Nothing spectacular here; I just like posting games I've actually won, which are few enough.

     

    I thought it was the Philidors defense.

    Anyways, I like d4 better.

  • 18 months ago · Quote · #16

    melvinbluestone

    Sorry about that nasty comment on Paris and capital cities in Europe. One too many Saturday afternoon screwsdrivers is my excuse. Maybe the picture somewhat redeems the post.

        @DaBigOne:  4.d4 is good against this Rousseau Gambit, and your 5.d5! is interesting, but what's with 6...Nf6 ? Why not simply 6...fxg2 ? The queen check on h5 doesn't work as after 7...g6 8.Qxe5+ Qe7 white's queen is pinned on the king, so the rook is safe. Pawn captures on d7 with check also tend to result in Bxd7 followed by the B conveniently repositioning to c6 to protect the black pawn, which is dangerously perched on g2. So after 6...fxg2, I think white has to play 7.Rg1:

  • 18 months ago · Quote · #17

    chesswiz625

    I am not sure that d5 is such a good idea...but needs some looking into.

  • 18 months ago · Quote · #18

    AgressiveAttack

    melvinbluestone wrote:

    Sorry about that nasty comment on Paris and capital cities in Europe. One too many Saturday afternoon screwsdrivers is my excuse. Maybe the picture somewhat redeems the post.

        @DaBigOne:  4.d4 is good against this Rousseau Gambit, and your 5.d5! is interesting, but what's with 6...Nf6 ? Why not simply 6...fxg2 ? The queen check on h5 doesn't work as after 7...g6 8.Qxe5+ Qe7 white's queen is pinned on the king, so the rook is safe. Pawn captures on d7 with check also tend to result in Bxd7 followed by the B conveniently repositioning to c6 to protect the black pawn, which is dangerously perched on g2. So after 6...fxg2, I think white has to play 7.Rg1:

     



  • 18 months ago · Quote · #19

    chesswiz625

    ALRIGHTY! So, I have been looking at it, and the best response for black, I think, is Na5. White's best option, then, is probably, Nxe5. Here is my analysis so far.
    EDIT
    For clarity of people not reading the above posts, the analysis is for the Rousseau Gambit lie with white playing the (what I think is) dubious 5. d5? 


     


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