Upgrade to Chess.com Premium!

How to play against the Ruy Lopez Berlin defence?


  • 14 months ago · Quote · #41

    Hawkfan3

    You guys are right. my move has too many drawbacks. however, i have found that the Four Knigts variation is very effective

    Now black must play Bc5 ( main line of the Four Knights Opening http://chessopenings.com/four+knights/, which black is unlikely to know), or d6 to shore up the e5 pawn and avoid losing it,  and submit to the classical ruy lopez space disadvantage. white now has no trouble reaching a comfortable game and can play d4 if black played d6. also, the c3 knight can find a very nice outpost on d5

  • 14 months ago · Quote · #42

    GreenCastleBlock

    Hawkfan3 wrote:

    You guys are right. my move has too many drawbacks. however, i have found that the Four Knigts variation is very effective

    Now black must play Bc5 ( main line of the Four Knights Opening http://chessopenings.com/four+knights/, which black is unlikely to know), or d6 to shore up the e5 pawn and avoid losing it,  and submit to the classical ruy lopez space disadvantage. white now has no trouble reaching a comfortable game and can play d4 if black played d6. also, the c3 knight can find a very nice outpost on d5

    Curious, why do you think Black would be unlikely to have a line prepared against the Four Knights'?  If Black is willing to play 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 surely he has to take 3.Nc3 into account and 3...Nf6 is the number one move.

    Also there are Black options aside from the ones you gave.  4...Bb4, 4...Nd4, 4...Bd6 are all valid tries.

  • 14 months ago · Quote · #43

    aggressivesociopath

    I am a little curious to know why you have 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bb5 Bc5 as the mainline. 4...Bb4 is over three times more common, 4...Nd4 has a name (Rubinstein), chess 365 even has transpositions into the Ruy Lopez old Stenitz defense with 4...d6 occuring more frequently then 4...Bc5.

  • 14 months ago · Quote · #44

    moonnie

    I wanted to write something but Greencastleblock has written it all. I get four knights roughly once every 4 or 5 berlin games. Personally I play Nd4. This is a game by me on chess.com with the Nd4 line with 3 days thinking time (up until the 13th move everything is explained on Jan Gustaffson excelent dvd series on e5 part 2) 

     
     
  • 14 months ago · Quote · #46

    Hawkfan3

    I had ment Bb4. My reasoning is that Nc3 and the four knights in general is less common in the king's pawn opening so black is less likely to know the lines but even if he does white can get a comfortable game. GreenCastleBlock Nd4 leads to a messy exchange and white comes out with the better structure, Bd6 puts the bishop in a funny spot that blocks black's d-pawn, and Bb4 is what is the main line and what I'd ment to say

  • 14 months ago · Quote · #48

    GreenCastleBlock

    Hawkfan3 wrote:

    I had ment Bb4. My reasoning is that Nc3 and the four knights in general is less common in the king's pawn opening so black is less likely to know the lines but even if he does white can get a comfortable game. GreenCastleBlock Nd4 leads to a messy exchange and white comes out with the better structure, Bd6 puts the bishop in a funny spot that blocks black's d-pawn, and Bb4 is what is the main line and what I'd ment to say

    First of all, you've clearly not done any study of the ...Bd6 line; it is debatable whether at GM level White can get any advantage at all.  ...Bd6 fits given White's Bb5: White can't physically play Nb5, and if White ever plays Bxc6 then after ..dxc6 Black's Bd6 is perfectly normal.  Given time Black will play ..O-O and ..Re8, this enables ..Bf8 which again is a normal repositioning in a closed Lopez.  White's only attempt at an advantage is to play to open the position with a quick d4, but Black has the resources to handle this.

    Secondly, if Black is not prepared for the Four Knights' game, it is his own fault, unless, after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 he intends to play a sideline like 3...g6 or 3...f5, and doesn't bother to study 3...Nf6 lines at all.  But if that is the case, why is he playing 3...Nf6 against the Ruy Lopez? I don't get your logic for why this is likely to catch Black off guard.  It sounds like you have heard titled players hawking their opening books using the phrase "which the opponent is unlikely to know" and are parroting them without any reasoning.

  • 14 months ago · Quote · #49

    moonnie

    Hawkfan3 schreef:

    . GreenCastleBlock Nd4 leads to a messy exchange and white comes out with the better structure, 

    Nd4 against the spanish 4 knights is played by: Svidler, Bacrot, Karjakin, Kramnik, Radjabov, Gelfand, Aronian, Timman, Naiditsch, Shirov, Caruana, Giri, Bologan, Kamsky, Grischuk Mamedyarov, Carlsen, Leko and many more top 100 players players 

    If they all think it is fine it sure is fine for me !


Back to Top

Post your reply: