I do hate the french.

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1st November 2007, 02:17pm
#1
by jkor
lecce Italy
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 186

This a desperate request of help (I know it's quite a common problem) 

I hate to play the french.

1.e4, e6 2.d4, d5 gives myself the creeps.

For some reason I really feel unconfortable everytime this line occurs in my games and I've achieved a really horrible score against it.

So my question to more experienced players is: how do I work this out?

Should I try some other line against 1. ... e6 (if so which line, is there a good or playable one?), or should I simply accept the fact I've got to study deeper a line I really detest?

 


1st November 2007, 03:11pm
#2
by billwall
Palm Bay, FL United States
Member Since: May 2007
Member Points: 1999
Don't play anything you detest.  If you are an e4 player, and someone plays 1...e6, and you don't like 2.d4, there are other lines.  You might want to try 2.Nc3 and make it a Sicilian.   You can also try 2.f4 (another possible Sicilian transposition).  Top GMs you don't like the French or not ready for it usually play 2.d3, 3.g3, 4.Bg2.  You can also try to play 2.Qe2 or 2.Nf3 or 2.Ne2 and 3.Ng3.  Just make a different 2nd move and study that line.  Otherwise, try to play 1.d4 and if 1...e6, play 2.c4.
1st November 2007, 03:39pm
#3
by Fromper
Boynton Beach, FL United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 357

I think it also depends on what type of game you're looking for. If you play 1. e4 because you like open, tactical games, you might consider the Alapin-Diemer Gambit (1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Be3). It's a good way to confuse your opponents. :)

 

--Fromper 


1st November 2007, 03:49pm
#4
by Ziryab
Washington United States
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 239

The first game I finished here was a French. White lost quickly--no wonder players hate the French.

 Of course, this particular game again an opponent with a penchant for giving away pieces is unrepresentative.

 The French immediately blunts attacks against f7, while offering many counter-attacking chances when White goes astray.


1st November 2007, 03:54pm
#5
by jona004
Telford, UK England
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 356
I'll leave this topic, it wasn't what i thought it was.:(
1st November 2007, 03:54pm
#6
by Spike_Mason
United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 246
I have two suggestions. One of my best counters to that situation is 3. e5, which puts your white pawn in a pretty good spot on the board. Or, instead of moving d4 on your second move, try moving c4 or Bc4. It's worked out for me before.
1st November 2007, 04:21pm
#7
by jkor
lecce Italy
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 186
Thank you very much. I'll try something of what you proposed (and particulrary the sicilian possible transpositions , I think). 
1st November 2007, 04:22pm
#8
by jkor
lecce Italy
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 186
jona004 wrote: I'll leave this topic, it wasn't what i thought it was.:(

Lol. What did french people do to you?


1st November 2007, 04:35pm
#9
by jona004
Telford, UK England
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 356
jkor wrote: jona004 wrote: I'll leave this topic, it wasn't what i thought it was.:(

Lol. What did french people do to you?


Just joking! In fact i think Thierry Henry was the best ever player in the English premiership ( football ). And he was French.


1st November 2007, 04:39pm
#10
by nicovalens
Paris France
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 30

We do hate the english  Tongue out

You should try the King's Indian attack...easy to learn and deter from traditionnal french positions 


2nd November 2007, 06:47am
#11
by ericmittens
London, ON Canada
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 860
I agree with the above. If you don't want to play the mainline, the king's indian attack is a perfectly good alternative. Often times you will reach a position from the king's indian defence with colours reversed...only one or two tempi up.
2nd November 2007, 08:39am
#12
by KingLeopold
Scottsdale, AZ. United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 318
You could try Chigorin's idea of 2.Qe2 Really throws a lot of French players for a loop when they face it.
2nd November 2007, 08:52am
#13
by FM Igornikus
United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 25

If what you hate the most in the french are closed pawn chains or all those deeply studied  lines with ...Bb4 and Bg5, you can easily avoid them in fact still having an active position. I suppose you would like to open the position, sort of. Then you can play the exchange variation 3. ed5 ed5 with the following c4, which is quite agressive and often works decisively if black's not ready. It’s a good idea to include first 4. Nf3 and see where he puts his next piece. Advancing c4 is the best after 4. Nf3 Bd6 (which is quite a common way to play for Black). C4 is not good if he playes 4... Nc6 but then 5. Bb5 gives you a small edge. Developing your light square bishop on d3 is not a productive idea too. Then you can postpone a bit with advancing your c-pawn until you see what is better c4, or c3. Generally speaking, the exchange variation has enough poison for black, this is not a hahrmless line at all. Still you are supposed, as usual, to learn a bit of lines there until you master it to secure at least a small plus in every game.


2nd November 2007, 08:54am
#14
by FM Igornikus
United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 25
Correction: Developing your light square bishop on d3 is a productive idea too.
2nd November 2007, 09:01am
#15
by Queenie
The London House United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 1445
jona004 wrote: I'll leave this topic, it wasn't what i thought it was.:(

What did you think it was?

 


2nd November 2007, 09:08am
#16
by FM Igornikus
United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 25

I also practiced for years 1. e4 e6 2. Nf3 d5 3. Nc3 inviting for 3…d4. White is better after 4. Ne2 c5 5. c3 Nc6 ( 5... d3?? 6. Nf4 c4 7. Qa4 ) Nc6?! 6. cd4 cd4 7. Qa4 Bc5 8. b4! The only disadvantage of this approach is that playing 3... Nf6 black can return to usual French lines. Anyway I would say that after 4. e5 Nfd7 ( 4... Ne4!? 5. Ne2! Ng5!? 6. Nfg1! Smile) 5. d4 c5 6. dc5 Bc5 7. Bd3 white is a bit better ( 7...Qb6?! 8. 0-0 Qb2? 9. Nb5! will cause a big disappointment for black)


2nd November 2007, 09:10am
#17
by FM Igornikus
United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 25
KingLeopold wrote: You could try Chigorin's idea of 2.Qe2 Really throws a lot of French players for a loop when they face it.

 Another good recommendation. 2. Qe2 is rich in content and without closed pawn chains.


2nd November 2007, 09:38am
#18
by Fromper
Boynton Beach, FL United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 357
Igornikus wrote:

I also practiced for years 1. e4 e6 2. Nf3 d5 3. Nc3 inviting for 3…d4. White is better after 4. Ne2 c5 5. c3 Nc6 ( 5... d3?? 6. Nf4 c4 7. Qa4 ) Nc6?! 6. cd4 cd4 7. Qa4 Bc5 8. b4! The only disadvantage of this approach is that playing 3... Nf6 black can return to usual French lines. Anyway I would say that after 4. e5 Nfd7 ( 4... Ne4!? 5. Ne2! Ng5!? 6. Nfg1! ) 5. d4 c5 6. dc5 Bc5 7. Bd3 white is a bit better ( 7...Qb6?! 8. 0-0 Qb2? 9. Nb5! will cause a big disappointment for black)


 What about 3. ... Bb4, pinning the c3 knight?

 

--Fromper 


2nd November 2007, 09:41am
#19
by Fromper
Boynton Beach, FL United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 357
Spike_Mason wrote: I have two suggestions. One of my best counters to that situation is 3. e5, which puts your white pawn in a pretty good spot on the board. Or, instead of moving d4 on your second move, try moving c4 or Bc4. It's worked out for me before.

3. e5 is the Advance variation, and it's the most common line of the French at intermediate levels, so most French players know that line better than any other possible line. People play this against me all the time, thinking that because they've forced a particular variation, they're limiting my options. They're right that I don't have the choice of going into the Classical, Rubenstein, or Winawer variations, but I know this line better than any other, so I do just fine in the Advance. It's sound, but I wouldn't play it as white unless you really know what you're doing. 

 

And one general word of advice that applies to most normal French lines (including the Advance): Never play Bb5 as white. That bishop is usually best placed at d3. Putting it on b5 gives black a reason to put his bad bishop on d7. The fact that the c8 bishop is blocked in is black's biggest weakness in the French, so by giving black a reason to put it on d7, you're giving that worthless bishop a purpose. Not only that, but this often leads to black trading his bad bishop for white's good one. 

 

--Fromper 


2nd November 2007, 10:17am
#20
by FM Igornikus
United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 25
Fromper wrote: Igornikus wrote:

I also practiced for years 1. e4 e6 2. Nf3 d5 3. Nc3 inviting for 3…d4. White is better after 4. Ne2 c5 5. c3 Nc6 ( 5... d3?? 6. Nf4 c4 7. Qa4 ) Nc6?! 6. cd4 cd4 7. Qa4 Bc5 8. b4! The only disadvantage of this approach is that playing 3... Nf6 black can return to usual French lines. Anyway I would say that after 4. e5 Nfd7 ( 4... Ne4!? 5. Ne2! Ng5!? 6. Nfg1! ) 5. d4 c5 6. dc5 Bc5 7. Bd3 white is a bit better ( 7...Qb6?! 8. 0-0 Qb2? 9. Nb5! will cause a big disappointment for black)


 What about 3. ... Bb4, pinning the c3 knight?

 

--Fromper 


 It's not pinning yet (with pawn on d2 Smile), but are right 3... Bb4 is another (of really many) option for black. I personally prefer 4. e5 and 5.a3 after that. However I like an immidiate 4. a3 Bc3 5. dc3 as well


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