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Is this a sound opening?

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21st February 2009, 09:21pm
#1
by UrWorstKnightMare
Ohio United States
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 196

I played a game recently in which a very odd opening took place. I was just wondering if move 5 was a sound move.

21st February 2009, 09:31pm
#2
by moaz
Bangladesh
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 186

yep looks like a good opening

21st February 2009, 09:38pm
#3
by Chessroshi
Indianapolis United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 739

I think Black has compensation for the temporary king discomfort. His development should be pretty fluid.

21st February 2009, 09:43pm
#4
by battlebishop33
California United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 40

Black should be careful about his open king, but other than that he has the 2 bishops, a central majority and a lead in development (after 6. Nxe4 ... d5). if he can consolidate his king position then he should do well and have some good pressure later on with the open f-file and with his 2 bishops.

21st February 2009, 09:43pm
#5
by rjane04
Marikina Philippines
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 70

maybe 5. d3 opening the diagonal of whites Bishop on c1 is more better than Bxf7 immediately, black reply with Nxc3 6. bxc3 - Bc5  7. Bxf7.

21st February 2009, 09:56pm
#6
by mhtraylor
Mississippi United States
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 141

According to the Opening Explorer, Black wins about 61% of time in the games with this position.

21st February 2009, 10:04pm
#7
by bondiggity
United States
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 1769

.

21st February 2009, 10:06pm
#8
by ashwath
bangalore India
Member Since: Apr 2008
Member Points: 2177

try the hungarian defence...

i.e Be7 instead of Nf6.

i had a decent success. with it...

21st February 2009, 10:12pm
#9
by jswilkmd
Colorado United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 140

White loses a bishop in exchange for ruining black's ability to castle.  The stats seem to indicate it isn't worth it for white.

21st February 2009, 10:42pm
#10
by TonightOnly
Phoenix, AZ United States
Member Since: Jun 2007
Member Points: 1521

Well, 4.Nf3 scores very poorly for white, but I think the best plan for white after 4...Nxe4 would be

5.Nxe4 d5  6.Bd3 dxe4  7.Bxe4

21st February 2009, 10:47pm
#11
by TonightOnly
Phoenix, AZ United States
Member Since: Jun 2007
Member Points: 1521
Gonnosuke wrote:

Black's going to be nervous for a few moves but when it's all said and done I don't believe that white has enough compensation for the bishop, especially since he's going to be weak on the light squares with no easy way of targeting the black monarch after he retreats to g8. Once black gets developed, white's going to wish he had his bishop back.


Compensation for the bishop? What do you mean? White gets compensation for the bishop with 6.Nxe4. You are talking as if this is a sacrifice.

21st February 2009, 11:41pm
#12
by migraine
Canada
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 7

Fischer played this when he was 12, he did pretty darn well!  The opening is not sound at all though, black gets a good center and the bishop pair, and white really doesn't have an attack against the king.  Unless you are fischer.  Regardless I would evaluate the postion -/+.  Harsh aren't I?

22nd February 2009, 12:09am
#13
by Theempiremaker
United States
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 735

This is a post worth reading .

22nd February 2009, 12:21am
#14
by psilohead
South Dakota United States
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 67

This opening is better for black.  This only works for white if black is intimidated by it enough to blunder.

22nd February 2009, 01:10am
#15
by TonightOnly
Phoenix, AZ United States
Member Since: Jun 2007
Member Points: 1521
Gonnosuke wrote:
TonightOnly wrote:
Gonnosuke wrote:

I don't believe that white has enough compensation for the bishop


Compensation for the bishop?


What a difference one word makes -- "bishop pair" is what I meant to type. I don't believe that preventing black from castling (i.e. reduced king safety) is enough compensation for the loss of the bishop pair.


Well, I thought about that when I read your post, but it did not seem like you were talking about the bishop pair.

The bishop pair can be an advantage, and something to work toward, but not all important. The right to castle and having two rooks active on the back rank are also advantages. In most games, the bishop pair is lost eventually, and all you can usually hope for is to transform it into some other type of advantage. I'm sure we can all remember a game where we gave up the bishop pair for a lot less than what white gets here.

Besides, if white cared so much about the bishop pair, he would not have played the aggressive move 1.Bc4. He would have developed it to e2 or g2, or maybe even d3.

22nd February 2009, 03:35am
#16
by merchco
Dublin Ireland
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 2551

White is down a bishop and has totally upset your game plan it all depends on what white does next  if he allows black get balanced and into a rythmn he may loose but if white keeps the pressure on he has a good chance is next move should be to get rid of blacks knight obviously and after that I would advance my kingside pawns rapidly and castle on the queenside if at all.In this game expect the unexpected, but thats Chess anyway.Taking risks is WHAT ITS ABOUT SOMETIMES AND SOMETIMES YOU SIT TIGHT just like life depending on your form your enviroment and your opponents. 

22nd February 2009, 05:56am
#17
by zabe
Mäntsälä Finland
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 58

Best for white is 5.0-0 if 5...Nxc3 6.dxc3 and white has better development

22nd February 2009, 06:34am
#18
by Daniel3
Canada
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 612

Black shouldn't be too uncomfortable in this position. His King can always move back, and White doesn't have enough pieces out to start a real attack yet.

22nd February 2009, 06:43am
#19
by Scarblac
Arnhem Netherlands
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 2009
zabe wrote:

Best for white is 5.0-0 if 5...Nxc3 6.dxc3 and white has better development


But not enough for the lost center pawn.

This ...Nxe4 variation is why Bc4 in the Four Knights is bad, and 4.Nc3? in the Two Knight's Defence leads to this same position.

22nd February 2009, 07:20am
#20
by boyerbcb77
Pikeville United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 781

I have played this before.  It depends on the player, sometimes it can through white a unexpected surprise.  Though I do not recommend this with a high caliber player.

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