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Italian?


  • 19 months ago · Quote · #1

    crustacio

    So I had seen the Italian opening maybe once before i started playing on chess.com. Now everyone seems to eschew the Ruy Lopez in its favor on here. Which is fine with me, since I prefer to play against the Italian as black. Does anyone have success with it? Seems not as good as the Ruy.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #2

    shepi13

    I believe the modern Italian is like a slightly worse version of the spanish.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #3

    crustacio

    Hmm. I think the Italian isnt bad, and it can cramp black. But it looks like it gives black more chances to grab initiative

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #4

    shepi13

    In the line I gave it is slightly important that black is also up a pawn.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #5

    guitarzan

    I haven't played that many games here, but looking at my stats, I do alright as Black in this opening. Here's an example:

    http://www.chess.com/echess/game?id=45877432

    6. ... Nxe4 was a little different on my part, but I liked the end result Smile.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #6

    netzach

    Italian-game is great to play:



  • 19 months ago · Quote · #7

    crustacio

    Do any of you guys try 3... Nf6 as black? that seemed like the natural move to me since it gets the initiative a bit away from white, so that's what I used in all my games. Looking at the book lines though, Bc5 is apparently what gets played.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #8

    Expertise87

    3...Nf6 is very popular and it's what I play. You have to know what you're doing after both 4.Ng5 and 4.d4 although you can probably wing it against other moves and do fine.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #9

    shepi13

    3... Nf6 transposes after other moves, but would force an early d3 or Nc3 from white, which is an improvement on Bc5. Also, d4 transposes to a good but complicated line of the scotch gambit for black.

    The only real challenge to 3...Nf6 is 4. Ng5 d5 5. cxd5 Na5 6. Bb5+ c6 7. dxc6 bxc6 after which white has a few vary complicated options, including Be2, Bd3, and Qf3, but black has some if not full positional compensation for the pawn. Note that 5...Nxd5 6. Nxf7 or 6. d4 are both practically terrible for black, although engines may struggle to find complicated ways to survive no human should ever consider playing 5...Nxd5, and I consider it to be a blunder.



  • 19 months ago · Quote · #10

    Expertise87

    shepi13 wrote:

    3... Nf6 transposes after other moves, but would force an early d3 or Nc3 from white, which is an improvement on Bc5. Also, d4 transposes to a good but complicated line of the scotch gambit for black.

    The only real challenge to 3...Nf6 is 4. Ng5 d5 5. cxd5 Na5 6. Bb5+ c6 7. dxc6 bxc6 after which white has a few vary complicated options, including Be2, Bd3, and Qf3, but black has some if not full positional compensation for the pawn. Note that 5...Nxd5 6. Nxf7 or 6. d4 are both practically terrible for black, although engines may struggle to find complicated ways to survive no human should ever consider playing 5...Nxd5, and I consider it to be a blunder.

     



    3...Nf6 4.Ng5 is a challenge for White, not Black. Black takes control of the game from a very early point and White has to be very accurate to not end up with a worse position. GM Hungaski suggested to me to look into 8.Be2 h6 9.Nf3 e4 10.Ne5 Qd4!? for Black (I tried it in a blitz game and left a piece hanging to a simple fork but obvously did not do this correctly) but I also like both 10...Bc5!? and 10...Bd6 for Black.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #11

    shepi13

    It may be challenging for white, but it is the only real challenge to black's idea, as it forces him to justify his pawn sacrifice.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #12

    plutonia

    I prefer white. A pawn is a pawn and black is playing giving white some serious endgame odds.

    White's position is underdeveloped but he has no weaknesses.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #13

    Metaknight251

    I agree plutonia.  The only line where I feel white is getting into serious trouble is the Qf3 line.  I feel that black doesn't have full compensation for one pawn, but almost certainly has it for two. 


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