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King's Bishop Gambit: Duras Defence 3 ... Nc6?!


  • 16 months ago · Quote · #1

    Iuvavum

    Hello I wanted to know, if anyone could give me some recommandations against the King's Bishop Gambit, which I consider slightly more unpleasant than the Knight Gambit?

    So far I have tried various Defences. The modern with

    3 ... d5, or the main line with 3 ... Nf6 sometimes the slightly dubious 3 ... Qh4+. All those continuations never really convinced me, and I started to try to avoid whole King's Bishop Gambit by playing 2 ... d5.

    So I was going through a book, which recommends the Bishop Gambit and look what other ways Black may have against it and found the Duras Defence, which to me seems pretty nice, and now wanted to discuss if this might be an acceptable continuation as Black? 

    A small summary:

     
     
  • 16 months ago · Quote · #2

    Irontiger

    1- the whole idea of the Falkbeer countergambit (2...d5) after 3.exd5 is NOT 3...exf4 but 3...e4, where the pawn seriously cramps White's development (controls e3). Yes, it's a gambit, and yes, you need to know your lines seriously if you don't want to have given a pawn for nothing.

    2-I never saw your 3...d5 line, but for sure 5...Nxd5 ? is a lemon. Why hurry to take ? ...Bb4 preparing to castle and pressuring White's center (threat : ...c6, then take on c3, then e4 hangs) looks best to me, and other moves look fine to (...c6, ...Bg4, even ...Nc6 maybe).

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #3

    AquilaZeta

    after 6.. Nc6   if  u  do not push  d4  then  Bc5 will  make d4 never happen and  so  there maybe no so-called center advantage. And some of your king front squares are weak.

    if   6  Nc6   7  d4  ,   then  7 Nb4.   if you dont trade your knight with the b4 knight by nxf4,   your d4 pawn is also under challenge by Qxd4  Nxc3.   if you  Nxb4 trade it or  just Bxf4. you at last  have an open center with king stucking in that center(so hard to push those e4 d4 pawns ) against double bishops .  hard to say good for white. 

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #4

    Irontiger

    AquilaZeta wrote:

    after 6.. Nc6   if  u  do not push  d4  then  Bc5 will  make d4 never happen and  so  there maybe no so-called center advantage. And some of your king front squares are weak.

    if   6  Nc6   7  d4  ,   then  7 Nb4.   if you dont trade your knight with the b4 knight by nxf4,   your d4 pawn is also under challenge by Qxd4  Nxc3.   if you  Nxb4 trade it or  just Bxf4. you at last  have an open center with king stucking in that center(so hard to push those e4 d4 pawns ) against double bishops .  hard to say good for white. 

    Hum... No ?

    Actually, after the OP's mainline, then 6...Nc6 7.d4 Nb4 ?, I would be happy to play against a grandmaster. 7...Nb4 ?? throws tempo away for no good reason. White has a few good answers : 8.c4 with a rock-solid center after 8...Nxd5 9.cxd5, or 8.Nxf4 where Black wonders what his bishop is doing on b4.

    Either way, Black's two bishops are no match for white's center and huge development lead.

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #5

    AquilaZeta

    Irontiger wrote:
    AquilaZeta wrote:

    after 6.. Nc6   if  u  do not push  d4  then  Bc5 will  make d4 never happen and  so  there maybe no so-called center advantage. And some of your king front squares are weak.

    if   6  Nc6   7  d4  ,   then  7 Nb4.   if you dont trade your knight with the b4 knight by nxf4,   your d4 pawn is also under challenge by Qxd4  Nxc3.   if you  Nxb4 trade it or  just Bxf4. you at last  have an open center with king stucking in that center(so hard to push those e4 d4 pawns ) against double bishops .  hard to say good for white. 

    Hum... No ?

    Actually, after the OP's mainline, then 6...Nc6 7.d4 Nb4 ?, I would be happy to play against a grandmaster. 7...Nb4 ?? throws tempo away for no good reason. White has a few good answers : 8.c4 with a rock-solid center after 8...Nxd5 9.cxd5, or 8.Nxf4 where Black wonders what his bishop is doing on b4.

    Either way, Black's two bishops are no match for white's center and huge development lead.

    8.Nxf4 Qxd4 then  there is no "strong center"

    8 c4 then c6  if you 9 Nxf4 then Qxd4 just the same

    white  thows so call the "tempo" just the same as black because the white knight needs to move again, too.



  • 16 months ago · Quote · #6

    Irontiger

    AquilaZeta wrote:
    Irontiger wrote:
    AquilaZeta wrote:

    after 6.. Nc6   if  u  do not push  d4  then  Bc5 will  make d4 never happen and  so  there maybe no so-called center advantage. And some of your king front squares are weak.

    if   6  Nc6   7  d4  ,   then  7 Nb4.   if you dont trade your knight with the b4 knight by nxf4,   your d4 pawn is also under challenge by Qxd4  Nxc3.   if you  Nxb4 trade it or  just Bxf4. you at last  have an open center with king stucking in that center(so hard to push those e4 d4 pawns ) against double bishops .  hard to say good for white. 

    Hum... No ?

    Actually, after the OP's mainline, then 6...Nc6 7.d4 Nb4 ?, I would be happy to play against a grandmaster. 7...Nb4 ?? throws tempo away for no good reason. White has a few good answers : 8.c4 with a rock-solid center after 8...Nxd5 9.cxd5, or 8.Nxf4 where Black wonders what his bishop is doing on b4.

    Either way, Black's two bishops are no match for white's center and huge development lead.

    8.Nxf4 Qxd4 then  there is no "strong center"

    8 c4 then c6  if you 9 Nxf4 then Qxd4 just the same

    white  thows so call the "tempo" just the same as black because the white knight needs to move again, too.



    Your suggestion hangs the queen.

    You should check the lines on a board next time.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #7

    AquilaZeta

    Irontiger wrote:
    AquilaZeta wrote:
    Irontiger wrote:
    AquilaZeta wrote:

    after 6.. Nc6   if  u  do not push  d4  then  Bc5 will  make d4 never happen and  so  there maybe no so-called center advantage. And some of your king front squares are weak.

    if   6  Nc6   7  d4  ,   then  7 Nb4.   if you dont trade your knight with the b4 knight by nxf4,   your d4 pawn is also under challenge by Qxd4  Nxc3.   if you  Nxb4 trade it or  just Bxf4. you at last  have an open center with king stucking in that center(so hard to push those e4 d4 pawns ) against double bishops .  hard to say good for white. 

    Hum... No ?

    Actually, after the OP's mainline, then 6...Nc6 7.d4 Nb4 ?, I would be happy to play against a grandmaster. 7...Nb4 ?? throws tempo away for no good reason. White has a few good answers : 8.c4 with a rock-solid center after 8...Nxd5 9.cxd5, or 8.Nxf4 where Black wonders what his bishop is doing on b4.

    Either way, Black's two bishops are no match for white's center and huge development lead.

    8.Nxf4 Qxd4 then  there is no "strong center"

    8 c4 then c6  if you 9 Nxf4 then Qxd4 just the same

    white  thows so call the "tempo" just the same as black because the white knight needs to move again, too.



    Your suggestion hangs the queen.

    You should check the lines on a board next time.

     

    no,  you should check.  try to do analysis as a puzzle.

    Qxd4 Qxd4 Nxc2. 

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #8

    Irontiger

    Oh, it's true. My bad.

    White still has a good development lead for the pawn, but it's maybe not enough.

    Well, I guess 8.Nxb4 it is then. After 8.Nxb4 Bxb4+ 9.c3 (with or without ...Qh4+ Kf1 at some point) White is still better. It looks like the 3.Bc4 line of the king's gambit accepted, but without having given a pawn.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #9

    Franzi4000

    Warum denkst du, dass das Game nicht equal ist?! So wie ich es sehe; Schwarz kann die Rochade plätten und ist nen Bauern vorn in der letzten Variante.


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