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Learning The Friggin Sicillian

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25th June 2008, 08:34pm
#1
by AnthonyCG
Washington DC United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 452

I'm gonna learn it now as I've tried replying to 1.e4 with 1...e5, 1...Nf6, 1...e6, and 1...d6 but I don't enjoy them very much at all as White's big advantages can be very annoying. I don't have problems with 1...e5, I'm just bored out of my mind with it. So I skimmed through all of the variations of the Sicillian and kinda like the Dragon, Accelerated Dragon, Kalashnikov and the Najdorf and I need to do more research on them before I use them. So I was looking up some books and I found some on the opening, but then there were all these other books that only went over certain variations (probably to confuse the average consumer :/ ), so I'm wondering if it's better to buy a book on the whole opening or to buy separate books on the opening.

25th June 2008, 08:37pm
#2
by RyanMK
Iowa United States
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 368
You may want to buy a book on the general sicilian, and then buy specific books on the openings that you like.
25th June 2008, 08:43pm
#3
by Graw81
Ireland
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 918
AnthonyCG wrote:

I'm gonna learn it now as I've tried replying to 1.e4 with 1...e5, 1...Nf6, 1...e6, and 1...d6 but I don't enjoy them very much at all as White's big advantages can be very annoying. I don't have problems with 1...e5, I'm just bored out of my mind with it. So I skimmed through all of the variations of the Sicillian and kinda like the Dragon, Accelerated Dragon, Kalashnikov and the Najdorf and I need to do more research on them before I use them. So I was looking up some books and I found some on the opening, but then there were all these other books that only went over certain variations (probably to confuse the average consumer :/ ), so I'm wondering if it's better to buy a book on the whole opening or to buy separate books on the opening.


 You spend ALOT of time studying openings!!


25th June 2008, 09:17pm
#4
by TonightOnly
Phoenix, AZ United States
Member Since: Jun 2007
Member Points: 1171
AnthonyCG wrote:

So I skimmed through all of the variations of the Sicillian and kinda like the Dragon, Accelerated Dragon, Kalashnikov and the Najdorf


 !!!

 

All of them? I have been solely studying the dragon for over a decade and would still not call myself an expert. Trying to learn any two of these would be a monstrous task, and as for learning both the Najdorf and Dragon; forget it. I think you should experiment for now, but at some point in the future you should make a choice to specialize. Most of your opponents will have studied the Sicilian deeply, so just skimming across a bunch of variations might be rather risky when you start to play more competitive chess.

 

BTW, I love the thread title. I have shared your frustration with the insane complexity of theory on many occasions.

 


25th June 2008, 09:27pm
#5
by TonightOnly
Phoenix, AZ United States
Member Since: Jun 2007
Member Points: 1171
RyanMK wrote: You may want to buy a book on the general sicilian, and then buy specific books on the openings that you like.

 If any opening were to warrant this advice, it would be the Sicilian. More than one book could certainly be justified for such a developed opening. You should definitely try to learn the main themes and ideas behind the opening, whether it is in a book or just articles and games. At the very least, I would suggest picking up some kind of book on the anti-sicilians and closed variations, along with a book on your favorite open variation.


25th June 2008, 10:14pm
#6
by AnthonyCG
Washington DC United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 452
Thanx for the quick replies. When I said I skimmed, I meant very loosely lol. I'm not ready to use the opening yet, I just picked a few that I'm interested in. I have noticed that the dragon and the najdorf are rather booky though. I'm going to start with the kalashnikov first, because it's really solid and not very popular for some reason. Plus, there isnt too much theory involved. As for anti-sicillians, I've been playing the Morra with 1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 d3 with good results. The Alapin I like to meet with 2...d5 and the gran prix I haven't looked at too much. I used to exclusively play the Sicillian Grivas, but I got bored of it, so that's why I want to learn at least the Dragon. Are there any more anti-sicilians that I missed?

25th June 2008, 10:18pm
#7
by hellrazor
iowa United States
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 56
what is the kalashnikov exactly?
25th June 2008, 10:25pm
#8
by AnthonyCG
Washington DC United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 452
hellrazor wrote: what is the kalashnikov exactly?

It's a variation of the sicilian that isn't so popular anymore. It goes 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 5.Nb5. now Black has 5...d6 or 5...a6(Lowenthawl Variation) 6.Nd6+ Bxd6 7.Qxd6 Qf6. I like 5...a6 but White can start all kinds of trouble after 8.Qd1.

25th June 2008, 10:29pm
#9
by beanz
Adelaide Australia
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 97

good topic and comments. I have avoided any study to date and simply play and learn as I go. The disadvantage faced laying black at times is my current frustration, however - openings inevitably being  a weak part of my untutored game . I have taken some fearful thrashings whilst experimenting LOL

How about putting up a couple of your scenarios to further illuminate the situation ? 


25th June 2008, 10:35pm
#10
by Chesspaladin
Luquillo Puerto Rico
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 12
Dragon is ok, but I think you should consider Najdorf because it's more solid and still posses attacking chances. I've studied the Najdorf very deeply, and I must say, this opening is very exciting. Just a thought... Innocent
26th June 2008, 05:02am
#11
by Duffer1965
Alexandria, VA United States
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 227
beanz wrote:

good topic and comments. I have avoided any study to date and simply play and learn as I go. The disadvantage faced laying black at times is my current frustration, however - openings inevitably being  a weak part of my untutored game . I have taken some fearful thrashings whilst experimenting LOL

How about putting up a couple of your scenarios to further illuminate the situation ? 


 If you are really allergic to studying theory, you might consider the Scandanavian as Black -- 1.e4 d5. I played it for a while and you can get by on very little theory. (I stole this idea from from MCO15, so no originality there.) I've moved on to the Sicilian for turn-based games because there just seems to be no point in trying to avoid theory when you can sit there reading the book while playing.


26th June 2008, 05:32am
#12
by shakje
Tyne and Wear, UK Scotland
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 143
Try "Starting Out: The Sicilian" by John Emms, there's a whole series of Starting out books for openings which I've found really useful for getting an overview of them. You don't need to go into too deep theory to get a feel for the openings, and there's more than adequate analysis of the individual moves + ideas for strategies following on from the openings, and some good illustrative games.
26th June 2008, 06:53am
#13
by kosmeg
Lamia Greece
Member Since: Apr 2008
Member Points: 134
Duffer1965 wrote: beanz wrote:

good topic and comments. I have avoided any study to date and simply play and learn as I go. The disadvantage faced laying black at times is my current frustration, however - openings inevitably being  a weak part of my untutored game . I have taken some fearful thrashings whilst experimenting LOL

How about putting up a couple of your scenarios to further illuminate the situation ? 


 If you are really allergic to studying theory, you might consider the Scandanavian as Black -- 1.e4 d5. I played it for a while and you can get by on very little theory. (I stole this idea from from MCO15, so no originality there.) I've moved on to the Sicilian for turn-based games because there just seems to be no point in trying to avoid theory when you can sit there reading the book while playing.


 Sorry, but I think that if white plays correctly in the scandinavian black is worse, don't think it's a totally sound opening.


26th June 2008, 08:39am
#14
by Duffer1965
Alexandria, VA United States
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 227
kosmeg wrote: Duffer1965 wrote: beanz wrote:

good topic and comments. I have avoided any study to date and simply play and learn as I go. The disadvantage faced laying black at times is my current frustration, however - openings inevitably being  a weak part of my untutored game . I have taken some fearful thrashings whilst experimenting LOL

How about putting up a couple of your scenarios to further illuminate the situation ? 


 If you are really allergic to studying theory, you might consider the Scandanavian as Black -- 1.e4 d5. I played it for a while and you can get by on very little theory. (I stole this idea from from MCO15, so no originality there.) I've moved on to the Sicilian for turn-based games because there just seems to be no point in trying to avoid theory when you can sit there reading the book while playing.


 Sorry, but I think that if white plays correctly in the scandinavian black is worse, don't think it's a totally sound opening.


 Okay, then what should someone play if he, as Beanz said, wants to study no theory? I'm obviously not advocating the Scandanavian for those who want to do the work to learn an opening.


26th June 2008, 09:14am
#15
by Zerrogi
Indiana United States
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 63
AnthonyCG wrote:

I'm gonna learn it now as I've tried replying to 1.e4 with 1...e5, 1...Nf6, 1...e6, and 1...d6 but I don't enjoy them very much at all as White's big advantages can be very annoying. I don't have problems with 1...e5, I'm just bored out of my mind with it. So I skimmed through all of the variations of the Sicillian and kinda like the Dragon, Accelerated Dragon, Kalashnikov and the Najdorf and I need to do more research on them before I use them. So I was looking up some books and I found some on the opening, but then there were all these other books that only went over certain variations (probably to confuse the average consumer :/ ), so I'm wondering if it's better to buy a book on the whole opening or to buy separate books on the opening.


 Wow, Graw81 is right, you have spent a large amount of time on the Sicilian.  

 Unfortunately, the Sicilian is remarkably diverse.  You'll be spending quite a bit of time if you decide to go with more than one variation.  Luckily, because there are so many, and each of them holds their own advantages and disadvantages, you should be able to find one that suits you just right.

Personally, I would recommend the Najdorf.  It's fun, and I've successfuly utilized it in many tournaments.  But, that and some shallow understanding of two other variations, is the extent of my Sicilian knowledge.

 Best of luck in finding the variation that works best for you!


26th June 2008, 09:51am
#16
by NM Reb
Lisbon Portugal
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 1594
I have about 20 books on the sicilian defense collected over my 30 plus years in chess......thats about twice as many as on any other opening. If you want to avoid theory then the sicilian is NOT the opening to play, especially any of the sharp main lines.
26th June 2008, 10:06am
#17
by exiledcanuck
Wellington New Zealand
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 243

Why is it called the sicillian?

 

All I ever think of when I hear it is one of the classic blunders - no not "don't involved in a land war in asia"- never go in against a sicillian when death is on the line!

 


26th June 2008, 10:32am
#18
by itstheemu18
Boston United States
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 60
I love the Scandinavian with 2...Nf6. But for something on the Sicilian, I highly recommend Chess Openings for Black, Explained. For 1.e4, it recommends the Accelerated Dragon, shows how to challenge the Marcozy Bind, and offers systems for 1.d4, 1.c4, etc.
26th June 2008, 10:49am
#19
by Bowens
San Francisco United States
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 143

Look, ignore what everyone said about specializing and studying before you use it; what you need right now is to play the hell out of the sicilian.  Treat it like a system and learn the first five important moves; the order varies depending on what White plays and which variation you are playing, but you will find that ...c5 ...d6 ...Nc6 ...e5 are all common if you aren't playing a dragon version. 

However, the accelerated dragon version is probably the easiest for you to start playing; you make the moves 1...c5 2...Nc6 3...g6 4...Bg7, and then, depending on White, you'll play Nf6, 0-0, and d5 at some points.

 Seriously though, the most important thing at this stage is to play the Sicilian, get a feel for why each move is made, what kind of middle game it leads to, and what the various traps for both sides are early on.  Once you've done that, then start seriously studying it if you still like it.

 Recap: Learn the first 5 or so moves by rote, and play the hell out of it!  The understanding will follow...

 =)


26th June 2008, 01:40pm
#20
by bobobbob
Dallas, Texas United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 264
kosmeg wrote: Duffer1965 wrote: beanz wrote:

good topic and comments. I have avoided any study to date and simply play and learn as I go. The disadvantage faced laying black at times is my current frustration, however - openings inevitably being  a weak part of my untutored game . I have taken some fearful thrashings whilst experimenting LOL

How about putting up a couple of your scenarios to further illuminate the situation ? 


 If you are really allergic to studying theory, you might consider the Scandanavian as Black -- 1.e4 d5. I played it for a while and you can get by on very little theory. (I stole this idea from from MCO15, so no originality there.) I've moved on to the Sicilian for turn-based games because there just seems to be no point in trying to avoid theory when you can sit there reading the book while playing.


 Sorry, but I think that if white plays correctly in the scandinavian black is worse, don't think it's a totally sound opening.


 It is pretty sound, as Anand has played it before.If played correctly, it leads to a normal += advantage for white.


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