Most forceful opening for either color ?

if thats directed at my post, i was talking of the 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.nc3 e6 4.e4 dxe4 5.nxe4 bb4 6.bd2 qxd4 7.bxb4 qxe4+
Which imo is the best way to meet the triangle system, and can become quite complicated

Ok i  figure any e4 opening playing against an opponent 1700+

as they most likely will play the Sicilian.

I wouldn't count on being able to force anything, really. If you want to practice openings by repetition, seek to play whatever openings that most players you've encountered in other games, preferred. If you, for example, continuously run into the Sicilian because everyone seems to want to play it, learn to play the Sicilian. I know what you feel about running into openings you don't like, though, I used to play the French as black but for some reason, everyone plays the exchange variation as white - which has to be one of the most boring openings there is - so eventually, I stopped playing the French.

Try to think of some openings others play a lot, openings that are in fashion etc., and you'll get repetition in practicing them.

If you play the BDG as white youll get yourt opening in 75% of your games at least, and as black the scandinavian and the Englund are the most forcing - FACT! I am abstracting from considerations like soundness, playability and ratings here which suits me fine because i'm very lowrated.

1-QGD Vienna

2-semi slav botvinnik accepted lines

3-closed ruy lopez: zaitsev variation

4-fischer's Bc4 against the najdorf

5-marshall gambit

Alternatively, if you want brute repetition of a line, do what I did with the Dragon: play in as many thematic tournaments as you can find. Great way to learn.

royalbishop wrote:

@ nameno1had

I have time in a certain opening. After 3 months which is my normal time to know the opening to play against any opponent at any level. I had problems. Then i started playing Vote Chess and here players talk about the moves and many 2000- 2200 players in thes games. So after 6 months of them playing the opening i studied  which came up about 50% of the games on that color. I really thought i was the BOSS. I crushed players when i used it so my head grew way beyond my skill.

Then as we know reality sets in and set in like ........ I found out about the other openings that could used against my opening and their variations which is about hundreds of lines of play. I found lines to counter the popular lines. So my head grew again.

And reality set in again and this time it made me humble as i had not Nightmares but Daymares. No such thing you say. Play enough games and can not for life of you figure out what is going wrong when everything was going so right.

I found out new lines we found to attack my opening and my Reference on my opening was poor as many are on openings. Trust me. They list the most common but fail to list all of them. Most likely the ones used in club play are listed and why?

At this point humble. And year later and find moves made against my opening that i was sure i would never see in a game. Which brought me to the point that i had a flaw in some basic fundamental of chess. When and did some research and found some detailed description of the opening i studied which i never came across in the 1 1/2 years study of this opening.

Now 2years later i figured it is not so much my study of the opening but my use of the pieces. Learning the opening is ok. I figure what can i do that will prepare me for any situtaion. Anwser was to learn how to use my pieces better to attack and defend. I tested this idea with an opening i knew almost knew nothing about and won a couple games with them. Hey i have an opening i still not sure how to use and win over 50 of my games with it and recently started using it. LMAO. Shhh do not tell my opponents as what they do not know...... will hurt them.

@ RoyalBishop

I have found myself doing that very thing out of necessity. Most of the games I play don't go the way I hope in the opening. In spite of you giving great advice and basically telling me to give up on the idea, I want to combine the two into a more quaint package.

Dragonbice wrote:

nameno1had wrote:

It isn't that I don't want to learn it. I just want to find something I can learn at a much faster rate by helping to ensure repetitions of it. I think if I could master an opening that I could force someone to play a reduced number of lines with, I would get where I am trying to go much faster.

I wouldn't count on being able to force anything, really. If you want to practice openings by repetition, seek to play whatever openings that most players you've encountered in other games, preferred. If you, for example, continuously run into the Sicilian because everyone seems to want to play it, learn to play the Sicilian. I know what you feel about running into openings you don't like, though, I used to play the French as black but for some reason, everyone plays the exchange variation as white - which has to be one of the most boring openings there is - so eventually, I stopped playing the French.

Try to think of some openings others play a lot, openings that are in fashion etc., and you'll get repetition in practicing them.

" I prefer the advance variation against the French " ...I was recently reminded how to play it properly...

ItsEoin wrote:

Alternatively, if you want brute repetition of a line, do what I did with the Dragon: play in as many thematic tournaments as you can find. Great way to learn.

I have considered doing this and probably will in the near future. I just don't want a toolbox full of tools I never get to use...

I think of it this way:  I open with what I want, and when my opponent messes with that I go into something else that I want.

Good example would be opening 1. e4.  I took this up a year or two ago after playing 1. d4 and 1. Nf3 exclusively.  My opening lines go like this...

1. e4

if 1... e5, then 2. Nf3 or 2. f4 -  I aim for a Ruy or a King's Gambit (if they go Russian with 2... Nf6, I go Four Knights, I hate the Petroff)

if 1... e6, then I play for the Exchange French

if 1... c6 I play Nf3, d3, Nd2, g3, Bg2, etc - the Kings Indian Attack

if 1... d5 I take the pawn and laugh, since I love playing vs either Qxd5 or Nxf6

if 1... g6 or d6 I occupy the center with d4 and try to play a line with an early f3, Be3, Qd2, 0-0-0

if 1... c5 then I am in a quandry - I love certain lines of the Sicilian from White, but hate others... I usually play King's Indian Attack to avoid crap I detest

That covers almost everything... I find that learning the KIA helps a lot, since it is simple and very effective up to about 1800 USCF, which is roughly 2000 on this site.  I am currently about 1600 USCF, and still use it a lot over the board.  

If you want to memorize less opening theory, look for opening systems. The pawn structures that arize from them are a limited number, also optimal piece development is relatively persistent. The drawback is that you'll have a harder time to get an advantage (including the initiative). But if that's ok for you give some a try.

I think you can learn nice replies to all of the major openings at sub master level in a few hours of study or less. Why try to play the same game every time?

The matter is that many players below CM (including me) tend to excuse losing some of the games with having misplayed the opening. That's because there's theory for the opening moves and there's no theory for moves in out-of-book positions, and misplays in the opening are easier to notice and to blame than an improper repositioning move, an unreasonable exchange, or something else that's up to you, not to existing theory, to examine and prove wrong. Otherwise said: it's easier to think that one can remember some variations that are said to be good than to think one can get some additional general knowledge to cope with various positions. In fact, it's usually exactly the opposite, but opening theory is too easily available to let it alone.

Actually, I just remebered that Icelandic GM Henrik Danielsen has a channel on YouTube, teaching his opening system "The Polar Bear System" based on 1. f4. He's not active on YouTube anymore but all his videos are still there; there are quite a few of them and I think it's a fun system to play. He claims to know more about the Dutch than "anyone in the world" (well...) and his opening system is based on the idea of playing the "Dutch" (often the Leningrad) with white, with one extra move. It can create complicated positions (and fun play) that you will know more about than your opponent and you will of course be able to play the Dutch (as black) as well.

I've played this alot and I usually get into the same type positions over and over again, so you'll definitely get repetition - black and white both.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFfQASWu-Bk

Have fun!