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My idea against the King's Indian Defense


  • 3 years ago · Quote · #1

    Chess4001

    Against the KID, I try the Colle-Zukertort against it but am not too confident with it:

    This is my main idea against the KID and I do 2. e3 in hopes of making a Stonewall, my favorite opening of all. I think I like this because the bishop on b2 indirectly eyes the crucial e5 square and can discourage central breaks. This system is flexible, but is it flexible enough to deal with the KID. The KID depends on a kingside attack plus a central break, so I discourage this by solidifying the center and punching back n the kingside. In the Colle-Zukertort I also have the hopes of a potential queenside attack with a later c4 and the opening of a c file. I don't like to play f4, a more Stonewall like move, because then I'd be weak to an e5 break:

    This e5 breakthrough has a bigger impact since f4 is then targeted. I've talked with this to a very strong player named conzipe (2000 FIDE), and he says that black has very good chances here. By looking at the diagram, I agree. A Stonewall commitment can't be taken back, so it would be too late. I have been asking myself some questions, like: Why not try the classic way to go? With 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4, that would be a whole bookload of theory I need to study, and if you're a lazy person (like me), you wouldn't want that. I want to use a surprise novelty against KID players, so this way, book theory is most likely dragged away.  I haven't talked much about my Colle-Zukertort idea at all, so this is the first time I'll be asking for feedback on my novelty. 
    Anyways, the standard Colle=Zukertort goes something like this:

     

     

     

     

     

     

    As you see, the point of this system, unlike the Colle, makes the dark-squared bishop a tough piece for an attack. By my opinion, it's sometimes very essential that it's comparable to a dragon bishop. It helps control dark squares in the center and even supports a possible Ne5! I like this a lot. Unlike the Colle, c3 isn't played, so Nb4 can be annoying; however, in the KID, Nc6-Nb4 is highly unlikely. So the cons of the Colle-Zukertort is wiped away, which is why I like to use it. Sure, an e5 thrust can send lightning in my face, but I think I can properly deal with it or defend against it while doing damage control. 

     

    So what are your opinions?

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #2

    TwoMove

    It is perfectly solid of course but I can say as a KingsIndian player it doesn't cause me any lose of sleep. It is one of the bonus points of playing KingsIndian against these sort of non critical anti lines, black as lots of flexibility and no problems at all. If white wants to play some system where plays e4 in two steps, when perfectly perpared for white to play it in one, well its not too scary. Black even as classic games like Petrosian v Larsen '66 to base play on.

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #3

    DrSpudnik

    It looks interesting. The main line efforts of c4-d4-e4 pawns is based on the idea that one should jump into the center and take it if Black does nothing to stop it. However, I suspect that it's a matter of taste as to how to approach a K-fianchetto defense. Who knows, maybe some GM will see this and play it in a famous game that will give his name to the line. Laughing

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #4

    pellik

    Most of the tactical ideas behind the C-Z fail pretty hard against the KID. White takes this setup because he wants to contest e5 and/or play dxc5 to open the diagnol. 

    Blacks idea of course is to play e5, f5 f4, then push the g pawn down to open the kingside. Nothing about the C-Z contests this plan and white is going to be pretty slow on the Q-side in comparison. Opening the center and trading queens isn't advantageous for white, either.

    Most of the colle players I know at ~2000 level follow a repertoire like that recommended in 'A Killer Opening Reperotoire' by Summerscale. If black fianchetto's early they play Nc3 to entice d5, then play a barry attack. If black doesn't play d5 then after 3. e4 the game is in perc territory which is not nearly as easy to play as KID. Roman Dzindzichashvilli has a paper out on the internet somewhere called 'Die Perc Die' that covers exactly what it sounds like. 

    Learn the barry attack and how to beat a perc, then save the C-Z for 1 ... d5

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #5

    DrSpudnik

    LOL: Die Pirc Die!

    If only. This thing seems to have blossomed as a fad about 5-6 years ago and now is fading anyway as people get tired of playing something they don't understand. Now the Alekhine and Center-Counter are coming into favor. Openings follow a cycle of B-S.

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #6

    pellik

    The relevence of die perc die isn't that the perc is popular, it's that you can push black from KID into perc with 2. Nc3

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #7

    AnthonyCG

    The problem with the Colle vs the KID is that ...e5 is unstoppable. After that the game turns into a classical Pirc sort of except your dark-squared bishop is on b2.

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #8

    TwoMove

    From black point of view don't think Barry attack very dangerous either, Yelena Dembo's book covers what black needs to know very well. Does have a bit of sting though so ideally would like to do a bit of preparation before facing it. In contrast with OP line think black should be fine just playing common sense moves.

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #9

    Vyomo

    I'd suggest d4 nf6 c4 g6 g3

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #10

    QUETZALMAN

    interesting your idea...

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #11

    pellik

    The barry attack is not that dangerous, but it does stop blacks automatic king-side attack plan and forces him to play chess after he locks up the h pawn. A lot of system players use KID and KIA to hide the fact that they don't know how to plan in the middle game.

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #12

    Chess4001

    The Barry Attack is powerful against your opponent if he isn't careful. It can be deadly and is good for an endgame player.

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #13

    Bubatz

    Pellik's statement may be true with respect to some of the KIA players, but certainly not regarding most KID players. Actually, I don't think that KID players would just churn out the "classic" KID moves against the Colle. Almost all of them have "Fighting the anti-King's Indians" by Yelena Dembo at home. For example, against Chess4001's line with 4.b3, she suggests 4... c5. 

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #14

    Vyomo

    Excuse me, Pellik? The KIA is not for those who don't know how to plan middlegames, the KIA is for those who don't want to have to learn each and every opening, like me!

  • 3 months ago · Quote · #15

    Ambassador_Spock

  • 3 months ago · Quote · #16

    Yaroslavl

    x


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