N on c3 in the Dutch Stonewall?

I read Neil McDonald's "Starting Out: the Dutch," but he doesn't give much theoretical treatment to lines that contain 2. Nc3 w/o a fianchetto, i.e., 1. d4 f5 2. Nc3 Nf6.  As far as theory goes, he says nothing more than that with d5 (the Stonewall pawn structure) there are fewer chances (than usual for the Dutch) offered by the fate (of passivity, presumably) of having to protect the pawn on d5, since there is a N on c3.  Nonetheless, that's exactly the mainline that the "Chess Opening Essentials" volume 2 (by Djuric, Komarov, and Pantaleoni) give.  

I imagine that McDonald is correct, based on the fact that the McDonald is probably a Dutch specialist, and I am not sure that the others are.

Any thoughts, resources, opinions, or anything? 

Or maybe there's no clear-cut answer to the question, as happens in many theoretical positions. However, I don't know about the specific variation you're examining ?! Maybe a look at what some Dutch specialists do in the database may help (Malaniuk, Ulibin, Agdestein, Williams...)

Thanks for the suggestion.  I actually trying to figure out which pawn structure (i.e., which Dutch variation) to play against 2. Nc3.  Everyone is wild for the Leningrad, so, when in doubt, I just do that.  :-) 

did you do your 1000 blitz games in 1 week?

No.  My brother backed out.  I was game.  He's a math guy, and I think he realized the numbers are against him and that I'm obssessive enough to do it.  He also considered that I had a strategy, too: the days beginning and ending the 7-day period are days that I could put in more hours than usual (sleep long the day before the period and sleep long at the end).

I wasn't considering Bg5 alone, but also g3, which would add pressure to a pawn on d5.  So what do you like after Nc3?  The stats I have access to favors d5, supposedly winning for black 28.7% of games and drawing 32.3% in 1479 games.  (I'm looking at the stats on 365chess.com.  Not sure where else to look.)

Yeah, you are right.  I miss remembered and looked by to pages 35-41.  He says the "dynamism" and some of the chances are sucked out of the Dutch because of the fixity of the pawns, especially after if white gets to play Bxf6, making is so that black can never get e5 in.  I guess that's really what I am trying to avoid.  I want to maintain the dynamism, complications, and chances.  

If I get into a Bg5 line, I don't want the N on f6 yet.  I'd like to make a flexible move that forces white to show his hand, and to see if he'll play Bg5.  I have a very good line from one of the Chess Informants on lines with Bg5 without the N of f6.  I can transpose into that, if white shows his hand.

I also agree, 3. e4 has no teeth.  I like black a lot, if that's the way white is going to play.  Black gets to have it all.

I like the general idea Stavros.  What are the follow-up ideas?  My original inclination was to play d6 for flexibility, but maybe e6 is better for flexibility.  My thought behind d6 is that there are a lot of lines in the Dutch where black will play d6, make white commit pieces to the wrong squares for a Stonewall setup, and then pick up tempi by playing d5 later.  This is a general idea, and I am trying to see if it has value in this particular concrete scenario.  

Excellent suggestion, Stavros.  Thank you very much.  This is very flexible, keeps the dynamism, and I am sure it retains the winning chances typical of the Dutch.  On top of that, it's then Leningrad pawn structure, which I know how to work with.  Thanks!

From my database, 2...d6 is very seldom played and in the Chess.com db of Master games, there are only only 3 games and it's entitled the Raphael variation...will be interesting to see what stronger players think about this line.

Agreed.  

I'm still so new to chess, I am having a difficult time interpreting and figuring out how to use Chessbase, but it looks like statistically strong responses (in master games) are moves like 5. d5 and 5. Qd3.

As Stavros said, statistics aren't the whole story.  I like the piece placement for black, but their is a theoretical question about what the queen's bisop is doing.  In Leningrad lines where the queen's N goes to d7, the B has already moves, such as in lines where black plays e5, white responds with dxe6 e.p., and Bxe6.  b6 seems like it could be an answer to the question of what black's queen's B is doing, but I am not familiar with Leningrad lines in which that B occupies b7, though I can see it possibly being effective when white has not played g3 or has not gotten the Q-side pawns rolling yet.

a nice game against the dutch (15|10) :

http://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=1190918128

That doesn't have 2. Nc3 (or a N on c3 without the advance of c-pawn to c4)...

win with the dutch by gambit, agdestein and co. is very good at explaining whites setup, e.g maneuvering both knights to d3 and f3 and fianchettoing the kings bishop, or exchanging the queens bishop on a3 etc. its probably worth giving a go. I liked it enough to make me go back to the KID anyway. good luck.