Need help playing open sicilians =)

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3rd August 2008, 09:54pm
#21
by ericmittens
London, ON Canada
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 1855

If you want to go with something thematic in the open sicilian, you could try for an "english attack" approach to most variations. (Excluding the sveshnikov which is a totally different kettle of fish)

The english usually goes Be3,f3,Qd2,0-0-0, and attack the black kingside with everything you've got.

The english attack can be used in (as far as I know) the Najdorf, Dragon (Yugoslav attack is basically an english attack), and Taimanov.

With the sveshnikov I suggest the normal Bg5 stuff, look over some recent super GM games for inspiration in this line, they all play it.

One issue you might want to address is stuff like the accelerated dragon/Kalashnikov/Kan...variations which allow the maroczy bind. Do you want to go into the bind or not?

Food for thought.

4th August 2008, 07:17am
#22
by draco_alpine
London England
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 489

I know you said dont post links but as you are getting no serious help i thought i would quote a comment

Sam collins from his book Understanding the chess openings

This quote is about the dragon variation but applies to all open sicilian to by knowledge

'The logical nature of black's formation should be enogh to show that aggressive measures are required of White to secure an advantage,and this intuition has been borne out by practice-the most popular formation for white involves(now heres the good bit)queenside castling with a kingside pawn-storm.(and in the dragon)coupled with exchangind black's fianchettoed bishop'

Here are two important postion i think are worth noting

I use this positon when playing an open sicilian not met by 2... d6 so genreal classicals(the sozin is my other alternative) svenkisov and accelerated dragons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and the other point being.......

 

 

 

 

 

This is work of draco_alpine 

 

 

Hope i have been of help!

4th August 2008, 07:23am
#23
by draco_alpine
London England
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 489

Oh and i hate to double post but can some one delete linus post as the page takes forever to load now?

16th August 2008, 01:23pm
#24
by hiddie
Netherlands
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 36

draco_alpine wrote:

I will show some of my lines!

 

Note There are many deviations shown in the move list,hope it helps!


7. Ng4 is not a threat. White can respond with Bb5+. So f3 is not a good move at all. Although this is a common theme in the sicilian in the mainlines f3 to stop the Ng4 threat occurs only later.

16th August 2008, 09:19pm
#25
by BillyIdle
Humboldt Park, Chicago United States
Member Since: Aug 2008
Member Points: 4172

   My vote is for the Gran Prix as well.

17th August 2008, 01:39am
#26
by NM-or-bust
Canada
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 98

BRB jumping out a window.

OK I'm back.  I don't need votes on which defense I should play, I have observed many games and find that I indentify best with open sicilian moves more then with any other defense.  I "Need help playing open sicilians =)".  I do not need "but, but the grand prix roxz".  You are not helping.

17th August 2008, 01:54am
#27
by micknek
Cochabamba Bolivia
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 124

There are tons of books and websites about how to defeat the sicilian and how to play it as white, do your homework dude. Also consider d4 (QG) is a very good opening and you will have to face it anywayTongue out.

17th August 2008, 02:10am
#28
by NM-or-bust
Canada
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 98

I'm too poor for books.  I'm ok with non-wikipedia/chess database links.  But I made this thread so, you know, I could get advice rather then wandering into hard to find websites (that are clear, have/don't need diagrams, advice is actually good, haven't seen it before)

17th August 2008, 08:42am
#29
by ericmittens
London, ON Canada
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 1855

Why not try downloading some ebooks from torrent sites?

17th August 2008, 09:20am
#30
by WanderingWinder
United States
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 828

The general impression I'm getting from the OP is that he wants to learn how to play open sicilians with white fairly simply. The problem with this is that there are very many different variations for black to choose from, and different things are going to be needed in every case to combat them.

Now to get do business. If you want to play the main open lines, after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 and then either ...e6, ...d6, or ...Nc6, the three major lines for black, 3.d4 has to be the move, at least if you want to go for an open sicilian. If you want to play open, you need to play d4. Now, usually cxd4 Nxd4 follows, though Qxd4 is a possibility if you want to avoid the main lines. As far as general principles go, black usually (not always) castles kingside, plops a rook on c8, and goes for queenside play, often playing ...a6 and/or advancing the queenside pawns. White will often castles queenside and starts throwing his kingside pawns forward with moves like g4, h4, and one of the rooks to g1 to try to open up the opponent's king for attack. Play is often very sharp with mutual attacks going and sometimes one player will launch the decisive attack a move before the other would have done the same. White often try to open files, most hopefully the h file, to either push a pawn or place batteries of heavy pieces to mate the opponent's king, with knights sometimes coming in for additional firepower and bishops aiming in from a distance. Also minor pieces are used to deflect or trade away the opponent's defenders. Black will often sacrifice the exchange by playing Rxc3 (with a knight having been there), forcing bxc3 and allowing the Black queen to take on a2 or c3, putting immense pressure on the white king. Play is double-edged and there are often sacrifices of pawns or even pieces for the attack.

Of course there are lots of other variations, including several where white castles kingside. The same plan will not work against every setup from the opponent.

I hope this helps, and good luck!

17th August 2008, 03:02pm
#31
by NM-or-bust
Canada
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 98

"Why not try downloading some ebooks from torrent sites?"

Because I find it immoral to not financially support those that have helped me?

17th August 2008, 03:16pm
#32
by ericmittens
London, ON Canada
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 1855

Suit yourself, but there's much selection to be had. Laughing

If you want a one stop book on playing the open sicilian as white the best you can do in my opinion is "experts vs the sicilian"

http://jeremysilman.com/book_reviews_js/js_Experts_vs_Sicilian.html

17th August 2008, 03:45pm
#33
by but
Texas United States
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 743

tach me

17th August 2008, 03:52pm
#34
by NM-or-bust
Canada
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 98

well good advice everyone, I will try to improve my thread quality from now on, asking about more specific questions >_>

After all I think the sicilian has more variations then any other opening.  Thanks Dmytro, and thanks ericmittens for the constant input.

18th August 2008, 12:48am
#35
by Schachgeek
Western Hemisphere United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 944

Not exactly on topic but has anyone tried  Larsen's f4?

1. e4 c5 2. f4

I play it from time to time when I want to avoid main lines especially against weaker players with the newest ECO.

But against stronger players, I  always play for the open!

 

Rich

18th August 2008, 01:55am
#36
by BaronDerKilt
East of Omaha United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 435

Best advice: You should not expect to win in the open Sicilian if unwilling to study specific lines & moves, as well as plans. Why? Because usually the Black player Will be well booked and so know it better than you. Secondly you will be losing to attacks that have been known theory for ages. It is usually more productive to study existing theory than try to recreate it another 15 moves deep at-the-board. Open Sicilians do not mix with theoretical laziness nor generalizations. That is precisely why the best players win with it. Sorry, but no pain, no gain. And there is enough pain to be had when one DOES bother to study the lines. 

I've played it in Expert and Master class postal events and done alright, after a lot of study. But nothing like some players have put in. A couple players I know, two Experts at the time, now one a Master ... sat up one night and played over 200 blitz Najdorfs against each other in a row, just to see what new ideas work out or appear interesting during play. Your computer probably does you a favor by repeating that Najdorf over and over. IMO you don't really begin to know an opening until after it starts seeming a bit repetative and boring at times. 

While there is no Secret given, if you wanted something from a master who has played both sides of the Sicilian; you got it. As an alternative, one can always wish upon a star . . . 

18th August 2008, 02:08am
#37
by NM-or-bust
Canada
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 98

Baronderkill, my OTB rating is maybe a provisional 1400-1500, the only strong sicilian players I know don't study that deep into theroy.  Although certainly when I become a stronger player (1800?) I will book up more, but for now I'm only studying to the extent that I will solve pressing opening issues.

18th August 2008, 02:17am
#38
by Schachgeek
Western Hemisphere United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 944

Dmytro wrote:

Schachgeek the author wrote "[Note: I do not want to play anti-sicilians, stop trying to convince me]". Your post is useless.

And again - with 2. f4 black equalizes. It's a wellknown fact. As for me. when I answer 1. e4 with 1... c5 and then my opponent plays 2. f4 I play 2... d5 and in most cases I have no problems in this game.


Except that after 2. ... d5 there is potential for falkbeer-like and Scandanavian like positions, which everybody knows  are busted for black.

28th September 2008, 05:34am
#39
by BaronDerKilt
East of Omaha United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 435

Having played ...d5 vs the Gran Prix since before it had a name, and the Falkbeer CG as well, tho not quite that long Smile I'd have to agree with Dymtro. And disagree with every assessment Schachgeek made. (Perhaps he doesn't like to play against them? Was it Fischer or Evans that said not to expect someone still competing to give you the whole story ... or such. I think just meaning that those who are active cannot Afford to give away all their Secrets! Understandable!  :P)

Not only does ...d5 equalize, it brings white to the embarassing question, "Why do I have a pawn on f4 when I have no center?!" imo 

If you just want something to survive to a solid but perhaps less than mega- enterprising middlegame, you could always adopt a formation with: o-o, Nd4, Nc3, e4, h3, Be3, Be2 and f4 when it is safe of any ...Ng4 consequences. While it may not be the thing vs Masters, it does one very important thing for Class competition, besides keeping WT out of early trouble (and playing nicely vs a Dragon). That is, it asks BL "Now what do you do?" since you have not immediately fallen into his expectation of opposite wing castling and full out assault you've taken a lot of his ideas away. Like a meaningful exchange sac on Nc3. A try for ...d5 would be thematic but you would stack on the d-file and have Bf3 to play against that. Just a thought. I've a lot of players do well with it in Class A, otb tournaments. 

Guess I should probably add, giving your opponent options to go wrong is what I feel wins games. That and discomforting them. The more chances you can give them to err the more likely to do it. Sometimes a more quiet looking position where they have to come up with their own plan is just the ticket.

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