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Odd Move In the Ruy Lopez?


  • 2 years ago · Quote · #101

    jetfighter13

    I hang material too, but I atleast I know when a certain move is too much hope chess when it is played on move two

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #102

    The_Gavinator

    Yes, but if you hang material it doesn't really matter what I did to beat you did it?

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #103

    jetfighter13

    yes it does, that way I can avoid that tactic later. but if you mean opening, yeah it kind of does, say I am playing as black and you play the parham, ok so stick away from e5 for a while until you learn how to play the Qh5 positions or I just simply get better so that way I am playing 1500s who have a clue as how to develop instead of a bunch of 1200s who feel that the Four move mate is the coolest thing since sliced bread. 1... Nf6 it is

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #104

    The_Gavinator

    Jetfigher, the first half of what you said is known as "getting better". It's called learning from your mistakes, not only in the opening, but in the actual midgame as well. It's playing the game, and learning from what you fall for, rather than learning a billion opening lines that will never occur.

    However, the second half is ludacris. The Parham attack is aggressive, fun, unusual, and gives white attacking chances. I have stated this many times, but it goes way past the 4-move mate.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #105

    jetfighter13

    what i used there was a clever bit of Sarcasm mixed with seriousness, and a quick explanation about how I study theory, once I worked out the lines I play for about 6 moves then I break and play on my own, however as in most of the openings I play, the natural moves I play extend for something like 8 or 9 moves and I am to lazy to check

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #106

    EbenezerDrood

    The_Gavinator wrote:

     

    The Parham attack is aggressive, fun, unusual, and gives white attacking chances. I have stated this many times, but it goes way past the 4-move mate.

    Exactly the issue.  It's not at all unusual at the 1200 level.  As a new player on this site, even though I'm somewhat higher rated than that, I have to face my share of 1200's to move up the ranks.  If I play ...e5, the Parham and Qf6 are all I see.

    So the point it, it has long ago lost its "surprise value" anywhere EXCEPT higher level chess.  So rank amateurs are used to it.  But anyone 1500-1600 or better finds it laughably easy to neutralize.

    To get anything out of it, you HAVE to be Nakamura.  But he discovered that it didn't do him any favors, either, so quickly abandoned it.

    It's of no use to anybody at any level, really.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #107

    The_Gavinator

    Ebenezer, at least the opening is something that is necessary to neutralize, it's not like the ruy lopez where you automatically give up hope of attacking early on. Also, it isn't very common, and in games that are 5 minutes or less, people waste valuable time thinking in the first few moves because they aren't booked on it.

    Out of curiosity, how do you neutralize it?

    p.s.- jetfighter, I saw no sarcasm or cleverness, I think you just say sarcasm whenever you make a stupid remark...

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #108

    ChristianSoldier007

    do not speak about things you do not know! they ruy lopez can take an agressive nature. Research and think before you speak gavinator

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #109

    The_Gavinator

    I have, the ruy lopez is a passive opening. Is actually one of the only closed games you can arrive at after 1. e4 e5.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #110

    ChristianSoldier007

    lol gavinator the ruy lopez being passive... thats the funniest thing you said since the parham is sound at master level

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #111

    ChristianSoldier007

    but I dont want to argue this with you. If you arent willing to take friendly advice from people that know more than you, then fine, your loss. im going to stop wasting my time

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #112

    The_Gavinator

    What gives you the right to say you know more than me? I am higher rated than you anyways... If the ruy is so aggressive, please show me how?

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #113

    jetfighter13

    The Gavinator, my sarcasm was fairly evident in the my use of cliche and my cleverness was using something you didn't understand. plus I don't see it that often except OTB, where it is simple to neutralize, and get play for it, atleast its better than 1. d4

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #114

    The_Gavinator

    All of you talk about neutralizing the Parham, yet none of you say how? Funny how that works out...

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #115

    jetfighter13

    well we did, but we are too lazy to change every line we show as equal when you change what you would play there, so we abandoned it on the basis that we would never come to an agreement

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #116

    The_Gavinator

    That's because the lines you play have white playing like a dummy... Oh well I guess that means the Parham is just great, end of discussion.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #117

    ChristianSoldier007

    A. I already said rating doesnt matter here its inaccurate and even if you are stronger than me I obviously know more than you, because of my knowledge of book openings. I dont know where you are with tactics and imbalaces, but I know those too.

    B.It's not just me, most players aboout 1600 will tell you the parham is terrible. I tweeted to Dan Heisman, a world renown chess teacher and video intructor, and he replied, and I quote "Nakamura gave it up & computers give good ways to meet.[I] don't like [it]"

    C.heard of the marshall attack? thats an aggressive line, but even in the closed good attacks on the king get going. here is a quote by silman, and he is trying to show how to defend against the Ruy Lopez

    Nowadays, the vast majority of tournament level amateur players answer 1.e4 with the Sicilian, while a few others (who like combative chess) go for the French Defense. Then comes the Caro-Kann, which has been given the stamp of approval by players like Karpov, Anand, and (more recently) Topalov. The rest go for super sharp (but riskier) openings like the Pirc, Alekhine’s Defense, and the Center Counter. Did you notice the absence of 1…e5? While grandmasters still show their respect for 1…e5, most amateur’s avoid it because other openings (excepting the Sicilian) are, quite simply, easier to learn.

     

    Those that toy with playing the Ruy Lopez for Black often get scared away when they realize that they also need to be ready for the Giuoco Piano, the Vienna Game, the King’s Gambit, the Bishop’s Opening, the Four Knights, etc. It does sound daunting! However, those openings can often be tamed by just a little study (Mihail Marin’s wonderful BEATING THE OPEN GAMES gives convincing answers to all the non-Lopez lines that can be thrown at you. You can see my review of that book HERE.), which then leaves them with the real job of learning how to play the black side of the Ruy.

     

    But, why play the Ruy in the first place? It doesn’t shock and awe like Alekhine’s Defense or the Center Counter. However, unlike these popular amateur choices, the Lopez is 100% sound while the others are … I’ll be kind and use the word “problematic”. The Pirc? It’s actually quite hard to master, and takes a lot of skill to avoid being smashed by white’s advantage in space. The Caro-Kann wins by force for Black (John Watson, the famous French Defense guru, is well aware of this, but he’ll never admit it), but nobody is listening. And the Sicilian and French are very sharp openings that require a lot of theoretical knowledge – even then, you will always be walking on a razor’s edge.

     

    The Ruy Lopez, in comparison with all of these other openings, offers a solid position, tremendous flexibility, and many lines are more conducive to understanding than to brute force memorization. In fact, the Ruy Lopez for Black can easily turn into a lifelong romance offering an opening partner that will rarely let you down (you may let it down, but the Lopez will still be waiting when your guilt fades and you once again return to it).

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #118

    ChristianSoldier007

    just saw the new comments, the parham is wonderful, great, awesome, and winning. if you plan to stay an amatuer your whole life. You will be the best at what you do: beating amatuers. We will call you the world amatuer champion. :)

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #119

    The_Gavinator

    You know more lines, that doesn't mean you necessarily know more than me. You happen to know the lines better, but being a line nazi doesn't also mean knowledge.

    So he said that the Ruy Lopez is good for black... "the Ruy Lopez for black can easily turn into a lifelong romance". So it disadvantages white in other words? I agree it is sound, however not aggressive. Personally, I play the sicilian because I'm sacared silly of the Parham.

    I looked it up, the Marshall Attack is aggressive... for black. As a white player, I don't usually look to get attacked in the opening. Why not attack with the Parham?

    Also, I once again repeat, learning opening lines WON'T make you an IM. Openings aren't that significant until you are at least 1800 USCF. As an amateur, what holds us back is tactical errors, so rather than acting like you are Kasparov because you know opening lines, I would practice tactics instead.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #120

    ChristianSoldier007

    Have you listened to a word Ive been saying? Ive been saying that its not all about lines, ITS ABOUT IDEAS!!!!! Please actually read what I right before you make a smart remark like that.

    ANYWAY, I want to stop talking about this. If you dont want to take advice from superior players (not me specifically, but every strong player and everyone who has been telling you) then that is fine by me, I dont care if you want to stay in a rut. You obviously arent listening to me, so lets just stop this pointless arguing. I hope you have a good amatuer chess career


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