Overrated Openings

Jump to forum:
« Previous | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 | Next » | Last Post
8th June 2009, 04:30pm
#141
by NM ozzie_c_cobblepot
United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 3846

I think things would be a lot different if that player knew he couldn't castle right from the outset.

What opening would you play? I see one of two choices. Stay in theory with something that is ultra sharp, where the main line has white giving up castling, or play very conservatively, with no hope for an opening advantage (let's face it you don't really have one anyways if you can't castle haha), and play for a middlegame.

8th June 2009, 04:30pm
#142
by sstteevveenn
Wales United Kingdom
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 1634

Look it's all well and good to say that development concerns pieces.  It is correct.  But it is only a simple extension to realise that in order to move one of your bishops, you need to move at least one relevant pawn, and as this is a move that is necessary for development it is only nomenclature that keeps it from being a developing move in itself.  So if one player makes such a move, and the other player makes neither a development move, nor another move necessary for development, the latter can be considered behind in development. 

8th June 2009, 04:30pm
#143
by NM ozzie_c_cobblepot
United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 3846

Uh huh

8th June 2009, 04:43pm
#144
by WanderingWinder
United States
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 842

As I recall, there are several popular lines of the French where one or both sides don't castle; White often doesn't castle in the Benko Gambit; etc. However, if both players knew that whichever player couldn't castle, then the opponent could steer the game towards lines where castling is important, possibly with a specially prepared repertoire.

As for 1...c5 not being a developing move, if you take that stance, then 1...e5 or 1.e4 or 1.d4 aren't either, and if development is all that important, then 1. Nf3 would clearly be the best move, and games would start 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.Nc3 Nc6 all the time...Undecided However, given that mindset, players would prefer to play without several of their pawns, so that they could develop pieces faster. Which brings a question: which pawn would a world-class GM most like to give as odds. I think it's pretty clearly not the f-pawn, likely not the c-pawn, but a-, b-, d, and e- all have a decent amount going for them.

I smell myself pitting my engine against itself with various combinations of pawn odds and no castling allowed...

8th June 2009, 04:46pm
#145
by richie_and_oprah
Marie Byrd Land International
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 1861

I'm not sure starting with an open a file for the rook is a handicap, despite whatever centipawn bs people might toss out.

8th June 2009, 04:55pm
#146
by NM ozzie_c_cobblepot
United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 3846

I'm ok playing Kasparov as black if he doesn't have his a2 pawn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just take off his a1 rook too.

8th June 2009, 05:01pm
#147
by Elubas
Buffalo United States
Member Since: Aug 2008
Member Points: 2590

By not having the a pawn though, your pawns can still control the center though you don't get an open center file.

8th June 2009, 05:03pm
#148
by sstteevveenn
Wales United Kingdom
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 1634
WanderingWinder wrote:

As for 1...c5 not being a developing move, if you take that stance, then 1...e5 or 1.e4 or 1.d4 aren't either


There is a clear and critically important difference in that c5 is a pawn move that is unnecessary for development. 

 

Also, I actually think maybe the f pawn would be given.  I know it was the pawn given in 'pawn and move' odds games so it cant be that bad.  At least it usually gives some compensation for the pawn.  Don't forget the f7 square is weak regardless of whether there is a pawn on it.

8th June 2009, 05:06pm
#149
by Nytik
Southampton United Kingdom
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 4720
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:

I'm ok playing Kasparov as black if he doesn't have his a2 pawn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just take off his a1 rook too.


This makes me think about an 'odds' tournament that happens at my local club. Now, Ozzie, you're a half-decent player, right? Wink Take a look at the handicap chart on the table at the bottom of the following webpage (gradings are ECF)- don't the odds seem too much to you? I mean, if I play someone rated 90 above me, so about 200 ECF, I'm pretty sure I'd have an easy game while they're missing their queen and queen's rook...

http://www.farehamchess.org.uk/estlin.php

8th June 2009, 05:07pm
#150
by gambitattack
Singapore Singapore
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 137

I agree, French is underrated, Sicillian/roy lopez is overrated. Smile

9th June 2009, 02:46am
#151
by NM Reb
Lisbon Portugal
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 4199

Wow guys ! Please consult any chess glossary and look for "development " . It concerns pieces, NOT pawns ! Yes, some pawn moves are necessary and a pawn move can be an "aid" to development but a pawn move in itself is NOT development. 1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5  and neither side has developed anything...... YET.

9th June 2009, 05:05am
#152
by sstteevveenn
Wales United Kingdom
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 1634
Reb wrote:

Wow guys ! Please consult any chess glossary and look for "development " . It concerns pieces, NOT pawns ! Yes, some pawn moves are necessary and a pawn move can be an "aid" to development but a pawn move in itself is NOT development. 1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5  and neither side has developed anything...... YET.


This is not in dispute.

9th June 2009, 11:39am
#153
by Ricardo_Morro
Bridgeport, CT United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 649

The Yugoslav Attack against the Sicilian Dragon is supposed to be super: how come I always lose? Overrated. Giving it up.

9th June 2009, 05:00pm
#154
by awesmond
plano texas United States
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 296

hahahahahaha this all started cuz of one accidental bump on page 5...... theres about a 3 month gap between posts LOL

« Previous | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 | Next » | Last Post

Add your comment:

Join Chess.com for free to add your comment! Already a member? Then login now to comment.