Overrated Openings

Jump to forum:
8th June 2009, 10:28am
#101
by sstteevveenn
Wales United Kingdom
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 1634

Controlling a square is not development.  Opening a line for the queen is irrelevant since development is mostly about minor pieces.  Even if you don't count it now, eventually black is going to lose a move to develop his bishop. 

8th June 2009, 10:49am
#102
by richie_and_oprah
Marie Byrd Land International
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 1861

Yes, the Queen is irrelevant in the Sicilian.  Innocent

 

I don't count at all with regard to development.  Development is not mostly about the minor's.  AND, if you are going to count,then realize that when White plays 4. Nxd4 (in all main line open Sicilians) one esssentially gives back the tempo.

8th June 2009, 10:52am
#103
by Fast_Thinker
Nashville United States
Member Since: Apr 2009
Member Points: 39

sicilian

8th June 2009, 12:16pm
#104
by rookandladder
Murfreesboro, Tennessee United States
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 476
sstteevveenn wrote:

Wow I cant believe that many people think the advance french is overrated.  Actually I would struggle to believe that ANYONE would think this.  It's one of the most underrated lines going.  It's a perfectly fine choice for white and has been played by several top players and is played regularly by a few, and yet still there's this myth (usually among just-past-beginner players) that it's a beginner move.  It's the very definition of underrated.  Usually it gets much more respect from higher ranked french players than lower ones though where perhaps it is neither over nor underrated. 

 

I should clarify. The French Advance is a perfectly reasonable response to the French. In fact, many GM's would say it is the best response. It may be. I don't claim to know.

But what I was referring to is that it is basically THE default move in the French for people who don't really know the French. Why? Why play a line that your opponent no doubt knows a lot better than you do? I think most beginners are better off with the Exchange, as it at least opens things up and gets you out of the traditional French setup, which your opponent obviously wants to play, as he played 1.e6 to start with.

8th June 2009, 12:42pm
#105
by mprhchess
Maine United States
Member Since: May 2009
Member Points: 291

The most underated is the Benoni. It directly challenges the strong pawn center white is trying to build.  The Polish can also be useful for ratings less than 1800 because a good defence is not widely  known. 

The most overrated is d5 for black.   According to game explorer it is extremely popular for a move that gives White a definite higher probability of winning. 

8th June 2009, 01:51pm
#106
by sstteevveenn
Wales United Kingdom
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 1634
richie_and_oprah wrote:

Yes, the Queen is irrelevant in the Sicilian. 

 

I don't count at all with regard to development.  Development is not mostly about the minor's.  AND, if you are going to count,then realize that when White plays 4. Nxd4 (in all main line open Sicilians) one esssentially gives back the tempo.


I think you know that isnt what I meant regarding the queen.  I didn't say for instance, that the sicilian is bad.  Just that it gives white a bigger development lead, which it does, if white choses to take it, with the open sicilian.  I don't "count" either (even though I used the word, I simply meant that 'either now or later' black will have to spend a move).  You don't need to.  You can just see that c5 does not aid development.  Nxd4 can not be said to give back a tempo either, since it is further centralising the knight and because d4 was a developing move and cxd4 was not. 

I also fail to see how you can disagree that development is mostly about the minors.  You have 4 of them to get into the game, and you have to develop them before you can do anything else with your major pieces.  I appreciate that when you improve in chess the minor piece development might be easier than deciding where to put your rooks and queen, which might be more difficult or more subtle, but difficulty or 'amount of thought required' doesn't change anything.  If you are past thinking about developing minor pieces and are too busy looking up specifics in your pet opening line, you can try teaching kids to play chess and you will soon see just how important minor piece development is! 

 

Anyway, I wasnt looking to argue; I thought (and still do think) I was just stating facts...

8th June 2009, 02:08pm
#107
by richie_and_oprah
Marie Byrd Land International
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 1861

I did not know what you meant specifically until you articulated your positon in greater detail.  Smile 

8th June 2009, 02:11pm
#108
by NM ozzie_c_cobblepot
United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 3701
mprhchess wrote:

The most underated is the Benoni. It directly challenges the strong pawn center white is trying to build.  The Polish can also be useful for ratings less than 1800 because a good defence is not widely  known. 

The most overrated is d5 for black.   According to game explorer it is extremely popular for a move that gives White a definite higher probability of winning. 


Kasparov writes in a recent Chess Life issue that it's been refuted, and dropped basically as a high level weapon.

I'm sure someone can add some color to that, though it won't be me.

8th June 2009, 02:12pm
#109
by BlackWaive
Michigan United States
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 389
mprhchess wrote:

The most underated is the Benoni. It directly challenges the strong pawn center white is trying to build.  The Polish can also be useful for ratings less than 1800 because a good defence is not widely  known. 

The most overrated is d5 for black.   According to game explorer it is extremely popular for a move that gives White a definite higher probability of winning. 


You know what the game explorer gives the highest probability of winning?

1. Na3!

Definitely underrated, more people should consider playing it.

8th June 2009, 02:16pm
#110
by richie_and_oprah
Marie Byrd Land International
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 1861
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:
mprhchess wrote:

The most underated is the Benoni. It directly challenges the strong pawn center white is trying to build.  The Polish can also be useful for ratings less than 1800 because a good defence is not widely  known. 

The most overrated is d5 for black.   According to game explorer it is extremely popular for a move that gives White a definite higher probability of winning. 


Kasparov writes in a recent Chess Life issue that it's been refuted, and dropped basically as a high level weapon.

I'm sure someone can add some color to that, though it won't be me.


Which opening were you refering to as your use of 'it' could apply to any or all of those mentioned?

8th June 2009, 02:17pm
#111
by sstteevveenn
Wales United Kingdom
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 1634

Argh, I can't tell, genuine, or sarcastic?  I'll assume the former, even though it kinda looks like the latter... Undecided

8th June 2009, 02:29pm
#112
by NM ozzie_c_cobblepot
United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 3701
richie_and_oprah wrote:
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:
mprhchess wrote:

The most underated is the Benoni. It directly challenges the strong pawn center white is trying to build.  The Polish can also be useful for ratings less than 1800 because a good defence is not widely  known. 

The most overrated is d5 for black.   According to game explorer it is extremely popular for a move that gives White a definite higher probability of winning. 


Kasparov writes in a recent Chess Life issue that it's been refuted, and dropped basically as a high level weapon.

I'm sure someone can add some color to that, though it won't be me.


Which opening were you refering to as your use of 'it' could apply to any or all of those mentioned?


The Benoni.

8th June 2009, 02:33pm
#113
by SamsBlockade
Ada United States
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 17

The french is underrated, but after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 is the most overrated. Nc6 is so overplayed and isn't that great. Nf6 is just as solid, if not better.

8th June 2009, 02:33pm
#114
by benedictus
Buenos Aires Argentina
Member Since: May 2009
Member Points: 777

I think Sicilian and King Pawn Game are the most over rated openings.

8th June 2009, 02:42pm
#115
by steevmartuns
Pennsylvania United States
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 526

Just looking at Chess.Com's most frequently seen games, I would say that this site has a huge bias towards the Najdorf and the mainline Ruy Lopez. It almost seems like EVERYONE plays the Najdorf around my level if the game starts e4 c5.

Openings that I've absolutely never seen here (except in theme games) include the Queen's Indian and the Modern Benoni. They're just a lot more obscure, probably because Mr. Game Explorer's first choices (Ruy Lopez, Sicilian) are the most popular openings to play, but they're certainly valid openings!

EDIT: Kasparov says the Benoni is refuted thanks to the lines where White rams into the center with an early f4, but most people on this site won't know how to take advantage of the strength of that push.

8th June 2009, 02:58pm
#116
by RoyalFlush1991
International
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 545

Overrated: Sicilian Dragon

Underrated: Fried Liver Attack, Dutch Defense

8th June 2009, 03:07pm
#117
by benedictus
Buenos Aires Argentina
Member Since: May 2009
Member Points: 777

Fried Liver Attack isn't underrated! Black can counter it so easily and gains a significant advantage. White only gets the upper hand if black doesn't know how to defend itself. Fried Liver is used by lower rated players for a reason.

8th June 2009, 03:08pm
#118
by sstteevveenn
Wales United Kingdom
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 1634

Actually it's funny, on chess.com, c5 is hugely overrated and e5 hugely underrated, but otb, e5 commands much more respect than it does here.  Possibly because online e5 might be considered as 'boring' and dismissed because it's what people played when they first learned chess and they want to think of themselves as above that, whereas c5 is somehow cooler, and perhaps shows that they are somehow more 'pro' now they don't play 1...e5.  Whereas otb, people know why they tell people to play 1...e5 when they are learning chess - because it's a damn good move.  Smile

8th June 2009, 03:15pm
#119
by NM Reb
Lisbon Portugal
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 4042

Pawn moves are not developing moves, they are only aids to developing the pieces. Development concerns pieces, not pawns, ofcourse some pawn moves are necessary.

Development:  The process of moving pieces from their starting positions to new posts, from which they control a greater number of squares, have greater mobility or where they can better aid the player's plans.

8th June 2009, 03:24pm
#120
by richie_and_oprah
Marie Byrd Land International
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 1861
Reb wrote:

 Development concerns pieces, not pawns, ofcourse some pawn moves are necessary.



Try getting the queen or rooks into play without pawns being moved and let me know how that works out for everyone. Wink

That is why 1. c5 is a developing move as is 1. ...e5.  I never claimed 1. ....c5 directly devoped a piece, only that it does increase the scope of the queen's influence, which is often a piece of which proper development sometimes see it staying on its original square so long important squares are controlled, and is also who's location (the Queen) is one of the primary weapons in Black development scheme in most Sicilian's

I maintain my perspective even if it seems but a Maginot line to others.  Tongue out


Add your comment:

Join Chess.com for free to add your comment! Already a member? Then login now to comment.