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Petrov for white


  • 20 months ago · Quote · #1

    berrychess

    Can someone point better moves for white from here? I thought black would be in inferior position but seems pretty good to me even when he felt the trap of taking pawn immediatly...

     

    After move of black pawn threating bishop, couldn't find any advantage for white. 

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #2

    NimzoRoy

    Maybe I'm being anal-retentive here but you should repost this as a game with all the moves leading up to position in question. That makes it a lot easier for lazybones like me to look the position up in DBs (like the Game Explorer) and possibly point out alternatives to avoid your position for White.

    Seeing all the moves also helps Doubting Toms (like me again) to make sure this position was reached with logical moves instead of inferior or flat out bad moves.

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #3

    DarkHorseGambit

    As a Petroff player I can say this position arises when white plays an early Bc4, usually arises when white is a little unsure of theory and just tries to develop naturally. Black will play Be6, Black as actually already made an inaccuracy as he doesnt need to drop his night back to f6 and plays Be6 first just to remind white that there is no attack. This position is reached by white choosing the Bc4 line, I would suggest that instead of trying to find a good continuation for white in this position I would back up and spend your time trying to find a better alternative for white on move 3. Try either 3Nxe5 or 3d4. It is intersting to note that there are virtually no modern day master games that reach these sorts of positions that should tell you something. 

    I have been playing the petroff with some success otb now for 2 years. It has a reputaion for bieng very drawish but at a lower level it is a nice little opening which leads to very open positions. In fact I have maybe had only 2 draws otb in this opening out of say 10 games

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #4

    ThrillerFan

    And rightfully so that White has nothing.  After 1.e4 e5, anybody who plays an early Bc4 and Qh5 (or Qf3), trying for a Scholar's Mate, is an idiot.

    There is nothing wrong with 2.Bc4, known as the Bishop's Opening, but leave the Queen home for now.  If a Petroff occurred, then clearly this was 2.Nf3 Nf6, and here, the Bishop almost never belongs on c4 in these lines.  Black is counterattacking e4, not protecting e5 (like with 2...Nc6) and so White doesn't maintain the e-pawn to control and stop d5 by Black, and so putting the Bishop on c4 in these lines is extremely naive. 

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #5

    DarkHorseGambit

    ThrillerFan wrote:

    And rightfully so that White has nothing.  After 1.e4 e5, anybody who plays an early Bc4 and Qh5 (or Qf3), trying for a Scholar's Mate, is an idiot.

    There is nothing wrong with 2.Bc4, known as the Bishop's Opening, but leave the Queen home for now.  If a Petroff occurred, then clearly this was 2.Nf3 Nf6, and here, the Bishop almost never belongs on c4 in these lines.  Black is counterattacking e4, not protecting e5 (like with 2...Nc6) and so White doesn't maintain the e-pawn to control and stop d5 by Black, and so putting the Bishop on c4 in these lines is extremely naive. 

    you are of course right however in these lines white overestimates his attacking ideas rather than thinking he has a quick mate on g7

    I think the key point here is find a better move 3 for white

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #6

    berrychess

    Here it goes the game.
  • 20 months ago · Quote · #7

    berrychess

    1) So what should white been played instead? It was an error to check with bishop

    2) And given the present situation, what would white play now?

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #8

    solskytz

    3...Nxe4 is not a mistake. 

    On the contrary, 4. Nxf7 is a horrible move, and should lose at least a piece to 4...Qe7. One of the many traps of the 3...Nxe4 variation (out of which white can ultimately pull off some kind of an advantage, it is true, but white is slightly better in other openings too)

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #9

    solskytz

    Nimzoroy Actually white doesn't look bad in the diagrammed position - and may claim a slight superiority in my view

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #10

    solskytz

    Funnily, 4. Nxf7 is indeed quite an option after the more 'careful' 3...d6 in the Petroff... and also with Bc4+ ideas. White gets two pawns, king exposure and an annoying attack for his piece, and to the best of my knowledge evaluations are 'unclear' (although personally I like this for black..)

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #11

    solskytz

    The only "trap" here for black comes about where white plays 4. Qe2, in the hopes of winning and holding to a solid pawn - hopes that in general have no basis in reality, but white can still try.

    4. Nxf7 is just crude, loses a piece for absolutely nothing, and in short - not the way to 'refute' the 'error'. 

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #12

    apostolis1

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #13

    ViktorHNielsen

    1: e4 e5 2: Nf3 Nf6!? 3: Nxe5 Nxe4?

    Ne4 is a mistake, it hangs a pawn to 4: Qe2!, 4: Nxf7? is a blunder, or maybe a ¨school gambit¨.

    After 4: Qe2!, black has no way to keep the pawn, after 4: ... Qe7 (4: ... Nf6?? 5: Nc6+!! wins the black queen, I've won more than once with this little trap, which is in the main line (and therefor completly sound for white)) 5: Qxe4 d6 6: d4! (6: Nf3 Qxe4+ is quite good for black)

     

    Back to the main line, black plays: 3: ... d6! (after 3: Nxe5), and after 4: Nf3 Nxe4, white has a few moves, 2 of them is 5: d4, which is dull, or 5: Nc3!?, answering 5: ... Nxc3 with 6: dxc3!, with the plan of Be3, 0-0-0, Be2, h4, g4, h5, g5 with a powerfull attack. I tried this line a few times against one of my friends, but I never gets an advantage, and all of our games end in draws. 

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #14

    solskytz

    ViktorNielsen Rest assured, 3...Nxe4 is quite all right for black, pawn or no pawn...

    Everything you write in the paragraph starting with "After 4. Qe2!" is accepted wisdom and can be found in any elementary opening book... but there's more to the case than that. 

    It's nice that you won against that provocative third move - but it seems that black could give you more trouble than you suppose in that exact line (yes, after 6. d4 in your variation)...


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