Ponziani Opening

What kind of success are you getting with equal opponents with this opening.  The truth is in the pushing.  

Because an opening is "obscure" does not make it bad. I remember quite a few years ago the Center Counter with 1. e4  d5  2. exd5  Qxd5  3.Nc3  Qa5 was considered by most as a rather bad opening.  I wrote a book on that opening anyway. And then played that opening in the 7th United States Correspondence Championship.  And then [this was back in the late 1980s] slowly other people started looking at this opening.  And then someone wrote a book and another book and the theory progressed to a world champion using that opening.

Back in the days of Morphy the Sicilian was an obscure opening but now we realize the Sicilian is a very viable opening.

Just putting a label on an opening does not make it a bad opening.

And while it is true I have played this opening for more than 25 years-I do not just play it out of habit and I have had much success with it and my play was with about 75% masters or above and 25% experts.

Also because Bruce Monson apparently loves and plays the Belgrade Gambit and because maybe that particular opening is not good--there is no anology with someone playing a completely different opening.

With your anology you could pick out someone who always plays 1. h4 and then say he has "Golden Hammer" syndrome and then compare 1. h4 with the Ponziani Opening. 

Dark my success rate with the Ponziani with equal opponents was very good.

Among the last correspondence games I played. I won with the Ponziani in the prelims of the national championship and in the Finals of the national championship [with my peers] I scored 2 1/2 out of 3] [and before that had also good results]

@jempty_method 

I don't think you understand the idea behind using an 'unusual opening'. In the Ponziani 3 c3 is clearly not the 'best move' to play in that position but it throws opponents (including GMs). If you have a lot of knowledge playing the Ponziani then this is a huge advantage. If black plays 'perfectly' after then they will get at least a draw. Of course, who plays perfect Chess? Even the top Grandmasters don't do that.

And remember if Black plays perfectly after any reasonable opening he
will get a draw.

There is abolutely no opening for White in chess that Black cannot get a draw with perfect chess.

Actually, theoretically the 3rd move 3. c3 is just as good as 3. Bb5 [Ruy Lopez] or any other sound opening as the result with best play for both sides is a draw.

With the Ruy Lopez while it is considered maybe THE top opening after 1. e4  e5 if you want to play the Ruy there are a ton of variations which can be thrown at you and this could require years of analysis.

The Ponziani is far better than many people who have not studied  the Ponziani to any depth will say. 

According to my engine after 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6

3 Bb5 (best) scores +0.18

3 c3 (6th) scores -0.17

but that's not the point is it...you may lose 0.35 if you play c3 instead of Bb5 but with superior knowledge in the upcoming positions, that will be made back soon enough.

DJ besides that--your engine is simply wrong. you do not lose .35 by playing 3. c3.  If you did--you would be sure I would never play or suggest the Ponziani Opening. 

Hey Jempty,

I play the Ponziani.  We can settle this (or start this) over the board.

kantifields

Give up Jempy. Ponz is deaf to any reasonable arguments (like most unorthodox opening maniacs). Any arguing will give him only the reason to repeat  his "Ponziani is good opening" mantras like a parrot. Its much better to ignore him, leaving him in his imaginary world.

P.S. Hope it`ll be my last post in this thread.

I hope it will be your last post as well!  

Of course it was played by the highest rated player in the world, and the former women's world champion within a week.

Firebrand from my own research the Ponziani is not weak even if Black is booked up. 

Of course we have the question--what does "booked up" mean in an opening not played much..

Certainly if you go to the data bases you will not find the best moves...

The Ponziani makes people wish they had studied.  For me personally, the Ruy makes black respond to more threats than the Ponziani.  The problem is black is fully capable and prepared to respond to those threats and create threats of his own.

The Ponziani does not throw away an adavantage like say the Exchange variation of the French.  It does not create as many problems as other choices, or at least it does not create as many obvious problems.

Anand's game against Aronian, refuted a main line played by super GM's all the time.

No one is playing the Petroff for a win.  Yet it's a mainstream response to 1.e4

The Ponziani is an opening which can be equalized by a prepared player, just like every other opening.

I just finished a game where Black played database moves found himself crushed.  

Ponziani Opening ? If that's an Italian restaurant, when is it opening?

Sorry chaps, I'm a bit bored today. ;)

Irrelevant. I don't know any Ponziani theory and won my only game against it with mate in 13 moves (even missing that I could win a rook a move earlier). Not related to the opening.

I was commenting on something written in the thread.

In any case, I was confirming that following moves from the Master database is not always a good idea.  I was not saying I played someone who did not know what they were doing and mated them in 13 moves.

Fair point.

Firebrand we were looking at a move in the ponziani which is not recommended  . I actually got it mixed up with another similar line.

I looked at your line and after examining your line I concluded it was a good and winning line for Black.  But it is not a line that we would play in a real game. It is my fault that I confused your line with another line. But the point is your line while it wins would not be played by someone who knows Ponziani Theory.  Because I tell you that I agree that your line wins--this is not "admitting defeat" it is just saying that you  are correct if that particular move is played in the Ponziani then White should lose.

Just as if in this line  1. e4  e5  2. Nf3  Nc6  3. c3  d5 and now White plays 4. Bb5?  White should lose with the correct follow ups by Black but of course there are other lines than 4. Bb5. 

I believe @Ponz111 used that line as his "workhorse variation" to win the U.S. Correspondence Championship.

I conjecture he might have something to say about your comment, IM @Pfern.

Oh, I see you left out most of his comment regarding same in post #367.  Neat trick.  

Do you play 3-Card-Monty in Washington Square Park, as well?  

If it takes GM skill to break down specific mainline openings, So What.  

Those openings are still good for the other 99 percent of players.  No doubt about it.